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hrmmm..... is this real?

Posted by: Sigma - Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:56 am
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hrmmm..... is this real? 
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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:14 am
Its rapidly devolving into "pyramid power"...


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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:05 am
JamesG wrote:
Its rapidly devolving into "pyramid power"...

How so? "pyramid power" claims many things and can't provide even a hint of evidence for any underlying physical cause for their claims.

NASA Eagleworks however seems to be onto something. A few things from the posts of Paul March (NASA) at the nasaspaceflight.com forums caugth my attention:

Quote:
Overall though the blue ribbon panel's experimentalists appeared to be pleased with our previous and upcoming lab work. However they ripped into Sonny's QVF/MHD conjecture because it relies on the quantum vacuum being mutable and engineer-able whereas the current physics mainstream thinks that the quantum vacuum is an immutable ground energy state of the universe that can-NOT be used to convey energy or momentum as proposed by Dr. White.

So Dr. White has some theory for those "Quantum Virtual F(orce?)" something effects (sorry, I could not find a proper explanation for this abbreviation), but a panel of independent scientists say this contradicts what science currently assumes is the case. In other words, they think he is wrong, but can't prove it.
Quote:
However they brushed aside Sonny's QVF based derivation of the Bohr hydrogen atom electron radius as a "mathematical coincidence" and didn't have a word to say what the Casimir effect and other quantum vacuum phenomenon were caused by, that can only occur only if the QV is mutable and can convey energy and momentum.

Dr. White ("Sonny") has derived the radius of the electron in a hydrogen atom (according to the Bohr model) from his theory, but that was brushed aside as a "mathematical coincidence"...
At that point, I would have become very, very interested in his theory and would have tried everything to prove or disprove it.
Quote:
So Sonny and Jerry Vera took it upon themselves last fall to increase this mathematical coincidence from one to more than 47 times as they explored the QV created atomic electron shell radii for atoms up to atomic number 7 all based on the QV being the root cause for all of it including the origins of the electron and all other subatomic particles.

Are you kidding me? Has there ever been a precedent for this in history of science? Where a new theory accurately predicts things we already know and still turned out to be wrong later on?
Unfortunately I chose Computer Science instead of Physics when I went to university. A decision I still regret. With more knowledge regarding general relativity and quantum mechanics, I would be all over this, trying to do calculations myself.
Quote:
"What does Dr. White believe he has to do in order to prove or disprove that his conjecture explains the behavior observed when the truncated frustum is energized appropriately?"

Exactly what he and I have been doing. Fleshing out his QVF conjecture in papers for the appropriate peer reviewed journals

I can't wait for those peer reviewed papers to be published!
Quote:
He is also continuing the generation of the COMSOL E&M and QVF based C++ plasma code that will allow us to compare the resonant cavity lab results with the QVF based force predictions using the volume integral of the ejected semi-virtual e/p pairs for the resonant cavity geometry in question.

We have already performed the first step along this path with the preliminary results I provided in an earlier post today. In that slide which is based on the copper frustum cavity running in its TM212 mode with 50W of 1,937.188 MHz RF power applied, we showed that the predicted thrust that took over 18 hours to run the 150k time samples on an i5 PC, was 54uN and the average for five real data runs at 50W was 55uN. Is that another mathematical coincidence? I don't think so, but we won't know for sure until I have time to compare the rest of the 30W, 40W, and 60W averages on the attached slide with the same computer code that will take 17 hours to run on my lab PC for each additional example.

So the measured "anomalous thrust" in the lab lines up almost exactly with what the theory predicts...


I'm not saying that this whole thing is all true and all naysayers are ignorant fools! I'm still slightly skeptical of it.
However, we are not talking about some shady "inventor" in his garage who won't let anybody look inside the shell of his invention (and certainly not talking about Victor Espinoza bat ass crazy type). We are talking about people at NASA who are not only seriously investigating those "thrusters", but who are also being watched by a panel of independent scientists (who are not yet convinced that the results are caused by "new physics", but so far think the test approach is correct).
AND they openly disclose what they are doing on the internet while they are at it!

Having recently (re)watched Cosmos (both the original and the remake), I'm not going to dismiss this only because it contradicts what is currently "assumed".

To me this seems more and more like a "smoking gun" that is leading us to something new. :)

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Last edited by Marcus Zottl on Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:11 am
Meh. Search the Internet and you can spend days reading and viewing "proof" of all sorts of outlandish things very similar to this. It always sounds plausible, especially if it sprinkled with buzzwords and cliche terms like "quantum", and "virtual" (extra points for this one because they were able to combine the two).

Cloaking it under the banner of NASA doesn't really mean much. NASA sponsors all sorts of odd ball research and every ten years or so something "radical!" and "breakthrough!" makes the news only to fizzle out again when its proven to be wrong or impractical. Remember the "Martian fossils?"


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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:55 pm
Just realized I had made some mistakes with all those quotes. I have edited my post to correct those (but did not change any content).


JamesG
I understand your skepticism. I just wanted to point out that the (claimed! grain of salt *cough* *cough*) ability to calculate various properties of matter by this new theory certainly caught my interest. :)

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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:21 pm
Apparently its not Pyramid power :wink: :twisted: but quantum inertia still in the micronnewtons so I am not adding flying cars to my Amazon wish list yet but if inertia does have an identifiable quantised unit that could be interesting in its own right and help with some other hard problems.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/02/can-em ... .html#more

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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:32 am
"quantum _whatever_" is the new pyramid power snake oil used to explain (and sell) anything.


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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:55 pm
JamesG wrote:
"quantum _whatever_" is the new pyramid power snake oil used to explain (and sell) anything.


Yes it can be and you might like the Infinite Monkey Cage http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/timc

especially the When Quantum Goes Woo 09 Feb 15 one :wink: :twisted:

But most of the Quantum Woo merchants use the quantum terms obviously incorrectly these guys have at least read some of the books on quantum not just left them on the coffee table to impress clients. They still could be wrong(The small effect could be something that has not correctly been accounted for) but they seem to show enough of their working out. As Marcus said the electron thing was interesting if part of the theory predicts some of the stuff we already know from a different route and also makes further testable predictions I think its worth more study.

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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:36 pm
So are magical pyramids.


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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:22 pm
Well if they can scale up to 2000 Newtons I might start believing in magical pyramids :wink: :twisted:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/04/eaglew ... .html#more

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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:33 am
if this virtual plasma particle system is in fact possible,

does this open up the reverse? being pushed by virtual particles that already exist? is their any way to map if the virtual particles are static or moving?

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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:07 pm
Sigma wrote:
if this virtual plasma particle system is in fact possible,

does this open up the reverse? being pushed by virtual particles that already exist? is their any way to map if the virtual particles are static or moving?


This is still at the fringes of what can be checked and I can understand JamesG 's scepticism he could well be right that this is another Pyramid Power scheme Ethan Siegel a well known and respected science blogger is quite sceptical about the drive if you want to listen to him on it its in the second half of the linked podcast the first half is about the scifi novel the Martian and contains spoilers.

http://www.scienceforthepeople.ca/episo ... ible-space

Me and I think Marcus Z may have an element of wishful thinking of wouldn't this be cool if it does turn out to be true because even a very small effect which is all that seems to have been confirmed in tests would be very useful in space where you have easy access to solar power. And we know that that there are discrepancies between large scale and quantum scale that have not yet been fully joined together yet in theory or practice. So there might just be room for new and interesting physics in the small gaps.

So to answer your question more fully if this effect does truly exist it needs to be expanded upon to the level where it is well out of the margins of error sector and then and only then would enough good theoretical physicists study it to a level where limits of the effect would be reasonably well known.

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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:57 pm
"If" based engineering rarely succeeds...


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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:41 pm
JamesG wrote:
"If" based engineering rarely succeeds...


It is indeed quite rare but we only get the new stuff when someone thinks "What if we try this..." for the 1st time mind you a lot of Darwin awards are also earned thinking the same phrase, thinking differently is not without its risks ... :wink: :twisted:

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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:32 pm
There are now claims that it involves a warp bubble as well. If true I really hope they do the super conductor tests which are claimed to theoretically be upto 5 magnitudes better out in space as IIRC from my Sci-Fi "lessons" you should not open a warp field in the atmosphere of an inhabited planet :wink: :twisted: then again I may just be overly paranoid.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/nasa-says-emdr ... ve-1499098

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Post Re: hrmmm..... is this real?   Posted on: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:41 pm
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/ ... -em-drive/

here is a condensed abstract ... was this posted yet?

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