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Will Answer Questions

Posted by: Sir_Realist - Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:49 pm
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Will Answer Questions 
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Spaceflight Trainee
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Post    Posted on: Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:40 pm
Sen~ior Realto,
Can you at least tell us if the new engines have been fired up? Has that carbon weaver arrived, and if so has it been put to use? I know answers to these questions border on facts, so we'll try not to take your answers as factual ;*}. There are so many things I wonder about. The website says the rocket will be ignited after it disengages from the balloon. How can you know that the rocket will be stable between release and full thrust? How are the different components of the launch system to be recovered? They will be at great distances from each other, particularly the balloon, which has to descent through the jetstream in jellyfish mode. WIll there be three chase planes? How is Brian's safety ensured at the balloon's launch? I know that the first few hundred feet of ascent by anyone dangling below a balloon is the greatest risk period. I could go on. But most personally, and nonfactually, can you explain how Brian can expect anyone to take him seriously when he says he's just a bit behind Scaled? That is an extraordinary thing to say (several times, even), considering the facts. Good luck! /jd


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Launch Director
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Post    Posted on: Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:47 pm
I have a question.......
with a baloon launch, surely you want the rocket ignited prior to releasing from the tether?
I for one would not be particularly happy about dangling from a baloon, pulling the release THEN hitting the 'fire' button, while sitting in a rocket.

You see, this is no issue for scaled, as SSO is a *plane* so it its motor doesnt fire, or mis-fires, then no biggie we can glide to the ground, however WF has no glide abilityso will litterally fall like a stone.

I understand that WF *must* have parachutes for recovery, but that is only the crew capsule, NOT the entire fuelled rocket..... surely.

Andrew


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Post Re: Will Answer Questions   Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:44 am
Sir_Realist wrote:
Regarding koxinga's comment, I think the X-Prize 'race' was a race to get a ship into working order, ready to fly. Being 'on the starting grid' was a matter of having a viable plan to go from design to implementation. However, this is a matter of personal philosophy.


Um..., no. I don't think the criteria by which X-Prize was to be awarded could be stated as "...the first team to launch reusable craft to a height of 100km twice within two weeks..., or the first team to have a plan to do so..." If that were the case, Jules Verne could have made a claim to the prize.

For me, your responses have been part and parcel of the Brian Feeney Show so far - fantastic claims, with no evidence to support those claims, and the claim that lack of evidence is somehow evidence of a real effort. Obviously, this was never a race. You said it yourself in a roundabout manner, in response to the question about the realistic chances of your claimed first launch date.


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Space Walker
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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:39 am
Sir,

Big claims require equally big proofs. People here want to see evidence of those claims, not a love pat from DVP that everything is going to be alrite.

Sorry to be blunt, but your replies are not helping us getting anywhere.


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Post Re: Will Answer Questions   Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:31 am
Grids, apparently you've misread my comment. You might check that quote again. As for my 'claims', I'm sure I haven't made any.

Koxinga and co., unfortunately I'm unable to provide the proof you guys are asking for. I apparently misunderstood what you're looking for.

Ah well, such is life. Happy forum'ing,
Sir-Realist


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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:51 am
"As for my 'claims', I'm sure I haven't made any"

How about telling us that you know what's going on. That's a claim. How about a willingness to answer questions. There's another one of yours. Thus you are revealed to be both a liar and a crank. Move on moron, there must be hundreds of other forums you can more profitably annoy.

Gent's ... it seems pretty obvious this guy is not working for/with DVP. I mean there is nothing of substance in anything he has put down here.

Therefor he must be a ... um ... what is that word again? Tip of my tongue ... sounds like ... droll.

DKH

P.S. the title of this thread is hilarious, all he forgot was the question mark at the end.

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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:33 am
You know what I find very amusing? Not the fact that an alledged DVP member has actually had the temerity to try and answer a few questions posed by this forum, but that so many people on this forum get so het up and angry about the DVP and the lack of information! To be honest, why the hell should BF tell anyone about his plans? Did Rutan? No, he keep SS1 quiet for 5 years or so before any information came out about it at all! Even when it was known about there was VERY little information forthcoming - nothing on forthcoming test flights for example, and very little of the technology. Did he get a slagging? No he didnt. Why not? Lets think about this, if this threads slagging is what any DVP member is going to get everytime someone puts forth what information they are allowed too, then I would keep quiet too if I were them. And what information they want to put forth is ENTIRELY up to them. Working where I do, I wouldnt expect to put our entire product development schedule on a website for all to see - why should the DVP? Remember, we are lucky that some people (Armadillo, Starchaser etc) do keep us up to date with news etc, but its not a God given right by any stretch of the imagination.

Somebody said its not a problem keeping people 'updated' with a website etc. Well, sorry, but it is. Putting together a decent website that doesnt look like a pile of cr*p isnt a trivial task, and would take quite some time out of a volunteer schedule to put in place. Putting together a crap looking website, from a sponsers point of view, would be worse than nothing.

The only thing about the DVP that I find a bit off, is the problem with the effort the launch site went in to in the belief the launch would happen soon, and thats a shame, but lets be honest, shi*t happens.

And as for 'just behind scaled'? What sort of time period has to go by before that is NOT the case - 2months, 6 months? If they launch within 4-5 months of the Scaled flght, then I would regard that as 'just behind' when considered against the whole duration of the project. If they don't launch in that time (and my guess is they will, but that's exactly what it is - a guess) then maybe their claim is excessive, but projects like this don't go smoothly and delays are common place in any major undertaking.

Rant Off.

James

ps. Not affiliated with anybody or anything except myself - just my 2p's worth.


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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:50 am
Hello, JamesHughes,

to put it in short words - it's relative to the point of view the things are seen from, to the aspects the things are considered under. You are giving a good example of that by yoiur words concerning "...just behind..."

Each one has a few special aspects that are the important and the relevant ones for him. The choice has been left to him but given his choice the aspects etc. chosen can be used to judge wether he is right or not.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Last edited by Ekkehard Augustin on Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Space Walker
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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:52 am
James,

It is precisely what Scaled did that makes DVP's claim to secrecy unusual.

You are right, Scaled essentially kept everyone guessing what they were up to for years and Burt Rutan had said that he will only roll out of the hangar when he has a ready made product.

See the difference with DVP?

Scaled had secrecy only in the development phase and the subsequent test flights. There was nothing secret about how his spacecraft worked once he had rolled out of the hangar. And he rolled out a complete, working space craft. (and photos and website) Second, he promised nothing definate on the actual flights (or test flights for that matter) until he was 100% ready to go and remained entirely cautious.

I have been rooting for DVP for the past few months. But while I think BF was trying to capitalise on the announcement of SS1's attempt to get fundings with his own 'rollout', the fact is he was no where near to making a attempt after I got a look at the 'space craft'.


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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:01 pm
Hello, koxinga,

in principle I've read all of your posts concerning this but do I understand right - do you have been at Feeney's hangars and have ssen Wild Fire 6 and 5 yourself? It's really a simple question only because that would be very good.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:46 pm
I suppose it comes down to just why BF is keeping everything close to his chest - only he knows why After all, its his chest, and he can say as little as he wants, and we can talk as much as we like about it, but its still his call.

I think that Scaled is the exception rather than the rule - they could afford to keep things completely closed shop as they had funding, whereas BF needs a little bit of advertising to keep the funds coming in, so is constrained by that, and therefor needed to give out some news. He probably would have prefered to go the secret squirrel Scaled route, but didnt have the funding. That's certainly what I would try to do. He has had to go for the unhappy medium. ALthough to be honest he's probably not all that concerned by a bunch of amatures whinging about things on an obscure website!

James


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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:53 pm
JamesHughes wrote:
... a bit of stuff for which he's got a point ... plus ...

ALthough to be honest he's probably not all that concerned by a bunch of amatures whinging about things on an obscure website!

But you seem pretty hot and bothered about it James, why is that?

DKH

P.S. Feeney made a big noise ... he got a significant fraction of the attention that Scaled got ... all for apparantly very little substance. Rutan never had the same approach, you can't in all honesty compare the two.

P.P.S. It's "amateurs" (sorry it was hard to resist in this particular case :wink: )

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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:17 pm
I'm hardly hot and bothered about it - I really don't care one way or the other - but I do have the patience to wait and see rather than speculate (which, btw, I wasn't actually doing before anyone launches in [unlike DVP I suppose])

I do, however, hang my head in shame at the misspelling of amateur. I remember when typing it in that it looked wrong, but didn't go back to correct it. Pah, I blame spell chequers (sic) myself, they make us all very lazy

James


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Space Station Commander
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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:17 pm
I'm hardly hot and bothered about it - I really don't care one way or the other - but I do have the patience to wait and see rather than speculate (which, btw, I wasn't actually doing before anyone launches in [unlike DVP I suppose])

I do, however, hang my head in shame at the misspelling of amateur. I remember when typing it in that it looked wrong, but didn't go back to correct it. Pah, I blame spell chequers (sic) myself, they make us all very lazy

James


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Spaceflight Trainee
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Post    Posted on: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:10 pm
James, who swears in his first post on this thread, insults the readers as amateurs, and claims not to be hot and bothered, asks,

"And as for 'just behind scaled'? What sort of time period has to go by before that is NOT the case - 2months, 6 months?"

Let us glance at Scaled's website and review test and flight logs:

November 21, 2002: Ground rocket testing begins
May 21, 2003: SS1 ground testing begins
August 1, 2002: White Knight flight testing begins
May 20, 2003: WhiteKnight/SS1 flight testing begins
December 17, 2003: First SS1 supersonic flight, under rocket power
June 21, 2004: First flight to space
September 29, 2004, October 4,2004: Xprize winning flights to space

Reviewing DVP's progress so far:

August 6, 2004: Widely publicized "Roll-Out" of the WildFire VI. Press release pictures show an unfinished vehicle, without even window-glass installed in the capsule ports. Attendees comment, "It seems to be a bare bones shell. no wiring, or component, nothing really inside except for structural members/motor mounts etc. "

September 12, 2004: Fractional scale balloon test to 40,000 ft, carrying 400lb payload. Balloon is made from 0.75m rather than 4m thick mylar, carrying 1/15 the weight, to half as high as required for the all-up launch.

To anyone but a cheerleader for daVinci, this reads that Scaled is years ahead, not months. One can suggest that daVinci has performed secret tests, but the way they have trumpeted the two modest achievements listed above shows a style of capitalizing on any bit of progress possible. The posting on the DVP website of modified photos of engines and rockets from other companies which will not be used by Wildfire takes away a lot of credibility from their hints of great progress in their secret laboratory. /jd


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