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Not So Flyin' Brian...The Fat Lady Sings

Posted by: harbinger1337 - Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:47 am
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Not So Flyin' Brian...The Fat Lady Sings 
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Post Not So Flyin' Brian...The Fat Lady Sings   Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:47 am
Well....we told ya so. It's all over but the shouting. The only shouting you'll hear in the forseeable future will be coming from the townfolks of fair Kindersley who have been left with ....well....nothing. It is now October 28th. The window is closed and the snow is falling. The Launch permit will expire in a few short days and...surprise...there's nobody from the Da Vinci Team in Kindersley...of course there's no rocket or balloon there either. NSFB insists he can launch no matter the weather...this is simply another attempt to fend off the now obvious. There will be no launch....no manned launch...no launch of any kind...until at least spring, if at all.

I suggest that all further discussion regarding Flyin' Brian and Company be relegated to the back pages of this forum as it is no longer relevant. In hindsight, and hindsight is usually 20/20, it was NEVER relevant. I feel sorry for those who had their hopes lifted and wallets lightened by NSFB and especially for Kindersley who could have used a nice boost to the local economy as promised. Just promises and pie-in-the-sky....I fear we've seen the last of NSFB and, most distressing of all, the Magic Helmet of Brian. I can't help but wonder why he sent someone to talk to the folks in Kindersley two weeks ago when there was no intention to launch. Nice of you to continue to build up their hopes. Good going, eh?

The band instruments never existed....sorry. The music you hear is the sound of smoke....and we know where it's coming from and who is pumping it where......

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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:13 am
The only thing that's obvious is that no launch date is announced and that no launch has been there in the past.

But the future never is obviuos unless someone really and explicitly says that he himself will NOT do something concrete or someone else having real power to prevent things say that he will prevent something concrete.

The insurance can be renewed everytime and if DVP really gets it renewed then the government again will allow a launch because it's acting based on rules everybode can get informations on by asking the government.

So we have to wait for informations really saying that something concrete won't be done by those who can do it or that something concrete will be prevented by those who can prevent it. This also is valid for the existence of hardware.

Suspicions, assumptions, expectations and estimations are never obvious objective facts but something called in German "Gerüchte" (fames in English???). We shouldn' create such "Gerüchte" even if someone of us is annoyed and should be understood in this.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:28 am
Hey Ekkehard ... if you have trouble with a german to english translation (or vice versa) go to this website ...

English - German - English web dictionary: LEO

where you will learn that Gerüchte translates to rumours in English (or rumors in Americanian).

and to say something on the topic of this thread ... "Gerüchte" was all we ever got from Feeney, we're just paying him back in spades.

DKH

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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:57 am
Think you for the link - when I read your hint that "Gerüchte" is "rumours" I immediately detected that I had to know the right word...

To pay rumours back to some who himself is creating ones I don't consider to be critisized but I don't like to participate in it.

But there may be people reading the threads and posts here but not having noticed yet what Fenney/DVP/GoldenPalace have beens saying in the past and then didn't do. These people shouldn't be faced to rumours caused or created by ourselves I think - we shouldn't add rumours because of these people but provide objective informations for them and secured knowledge. We should do so to improve the situation for them.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:26 am
Feeney's a big boy ... he knows what to expect (or he should).

I'm sorry you are unhappy with the backlash of speculation and innuendo that DVP has received on this forum. I understand what it is like to wish things to be otherwise than they are.

But hey, what-ya-gonna-do? Free speech and all that. A lot of folks think he's screwed an entire Canadian town. For whatever reason a few are mad, a few are frustrated, some are weeping bloody tears of rage, while others find it hilarious, and all of them have a right to express their thoughts here on the forum.

DKH

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Post Official Support Thread of FB   Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:57 am
Ekkey;

If you want to read the official support thread for FB, you need only read any of the so called independent presses. They are too lazy and stupid to give any thought that what FB feeds them may be a load of bullshit. Several of our members have taken great pains to check and cross-check FB's tales and found many of them to be pure crap. Positive proof?, no, but a very reasonable effort at objective viewpoint.

However, I do agree with you on one aspect of our repeated Brian bashings. It would do this forum well to stop whipping the same old horse. We should consider starting a thread that challenges the reliability of these so called news organizations and their unsubstantiated reports, rather than continually beat on poor FB.

After all, it is this numb minded press that spreads the lies O'Brian. He couldn't do it by himself. Maybe its time to attack the pushers and not the producer.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:44 am
Objectivity, fact-based orientation and to handle facts as exact and detailed as possible are very important principles not only for me but for nearly evryone and the whole world because they are reducing misjudgements, conflicts and the like.

If I myself would post rumours to pay back to others their own rumours I would be telling tales my own to those people too that really DON'T tell rumours.

So that doesn't mean that I would be feeling unhappy because of wishes and it doesn't mean that I would want to protect Feeney - I don't want to be telling rumours and tales myself.

And I don't want to be told rumours or tales by others - regardless wether Feeney or someone else is telling them.

Consequently I imagine someone who is new here today perhaps reading the rumours that have been told only to pay back rumours previously told by a single other person or team. This new person cannot know at once what Feeny and DVP did say and do in the past. If this person later concludes or feels to be told rumours by those who were paying back he or she may be greatly annoyed at these persons as well as at Brian Feeney and DVP.

This would be a bad situation for the people only paying back - and for the thread, the topic, the section of the board and the board itself too perhaps.

That's the reason for my answer to harbinger1337.

If Feeney is telling tales and rumours then he should have to suffer by consequences - but ONLY he and not other people discussing here. But paying back by telling rumours may mean that these other people too are suffering by consequences.

So "paying back" is alright but by rumours is not.

And not all of us can easyly go to Kindersly or to Brian Feeney, DVP, GoldenPalace and their equipment to get our own independet and objective insights, knowledges and informations. At least from Hamburg that's impossible - it's impossible to check what others say regardless of who they are...



tom karns,

I fully agree to you concerning the presses, news organizations etc. And Brian Feeney urgently should prove substantially and significantly what's rumour and what's not.

But we ourselves should only tell things here that we can prove to be facts - if we cannot we shouldn't tell them. We shouldn't because in that case we would be doing like Feeney is supposed to be doing - we would be following his example and we wouldn't be better examples. This means we would fail.

If we manage to tell only things we can prove - each of us - than this would increase the pressure on Feeney and DVP.

I only intended a warning - I understand the dissatisfaction and I understand the annoyance.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:18 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
one almighty storm in a tea cup, plus the following ...

I only intended a warning - I understand the dissatisfaction and I understand the annoyance.

Well ... consider us warned. :shock:

DKH

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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:18 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
But we ourselves should only tell things here that we can prove to be facts - if we cannot we shouldn't tell them.


Ekkehard Augustin,

(Un)fortunately, we are not in a court of law, this is an Internet BBS, the place where we can share our opinions, not to implement legal actions. We are not represented by our official names, passports or driver ID's - only anonymous nicks, so we have no legal responsibility for what we say and therefore zero background to clame anything we post as legally proven.
If we will follow your suggestion, then there will be nothing to post and we should close the forum and go home.

Personally, I don't think DVP will fly in close future despite all their hype, but I also don't believe that continue chasing Brian will bring any good to the industry's credibility.
But! If anyone feels the opposite, it is my position that they are absolutely welcome to bring their thoughts and share with us.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:53 pm
Mostly agreed I think - but we should keep a good image to the public and a better image to the public than DVP. Faced to the public similar rules apply than in the court because the general public tends to act like a court... ... But in principle my words could be considered as if I were be arguing in science - which isn't intended too.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:14 pm
DAVE S. wrote:
Hi there! :D
I've been away saving my spot at the launch site...
Still working on my igloo with a moonroof.. :shock:

Sorry I haven't been deflecting sarcasm and battling wits with unarmed opponents. :oops:

I was also looking at all the murals the people in Kindersley have painted on their store windows, :cry:
and saw the memoraibila that has been manufactured and not sold....
thousands of key tags, toy rockets etc.... :cry:

People in retail wearing Da Vinchi teeshirts on Fridays, :(
special advertising editions in local newspaper ......

BUT!..............

They are" still going for launch" ( ! ?) :wink:

As of today... only 2 things going on


F*** All...... and nothing :x

From your "Roving Eye" in Kindersley :D
Dave S



I think that says it all. I also don't think it's entirely appropriate...and sorry Ekkehard....to proceed with a discussion of the scientific method as applied to Flyin' Brian's shenanigans here as there's nothing scientific about it. This is opinion, and I don't think we really need to have deep thought about the "image" we're projecting anywhere and how it reflects on anything. NSFB has kept telling everyone what he was going to do and has been disingenuous at every conceivable juncture. We are simply reporting this. You draw your own conclusions. I've drawn mine and I think from the quote above, Kindersley is finally getting the idea too.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:36 pm
If your intention was to post an opinion everything clearly is alright - no problem.

It may be my fault having understood your post as a kind of information concerning facts - it may be due to being a not-native speaker.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:53 pm
Ekke...

No problem there....nothing personal at all...and the good Doctor is correct. We're having some fun with this because the situation is so situationally absurd that it IS funny...and the majority of my latest commentaries have dwelled in the realm of comedy. I posted several previous times that laid out the factual base for my assertion that NSFB has been less than genuine with everyone...everyone knows the facts or the lack of them, but you know, every court must have its jester and willing or unwilling, witting or unwitting, Flyin' Brian is our boy....take care...;)

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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:45 pm
Mr. Feeney has made impossible claims, and described the situation differently than it actually is. One doesn't need to go to Kindersley or Toronto to know that. Pointing out that it is impossible to succeed (or even launch) an all-up flight with a passenger when using multiple untested hardware systems is not speaking a rumor. Pointing out the falsehood (and absurdity) of Mr. Feeney's claim that his project being nearly at the same level of development as Scaled's project is not spreading a rumor. We don't need to wait until WildFire VI launches to know these things.

As far as image is concerned, I think a visitor to this forum would recognize the value of the Xprize community paying attention to which projects are credible and which are not. Besides, this forum is fading away now that the Xprize is won. Aside from watching Armadillo's actual progress, keeping track of Brian's shenanigans is the liveliest thing going on here. /jd


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Post    Posted on: Sat Oct 30, 2004 3:02 am
My opinons:

Is DVP guilty of over-promising: Yes.

Will WildFire ever flying: The jury is still out.

The whole issue reminds me of the early private space advocates like Philip Bono and to a lesser extend Andrew Beal of Beal Aerospace. Their ideas and concepts are sound, no one really disputes that, but the cost, timetables for development and anticipated hurdles are often too optimistic, probably for reasons to attract investors.

My grouse is that he should know his development status better than anyone and he should have a fairly good idea when he is ready to fly if ever. I can't imagine a project manager slipping up so badly.


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