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Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?

Posted by: Ben - Fri May 04, 2012 7:15 pm
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Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? 

Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?
No prizes will be won. 71%  71%  [ 10 ]
Yes, at least one prize will be won. 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
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Will the prize be won by the end of 2014? 
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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?/ ya i deserve it"   Posted on: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:34 pm
Noble prize must be awarded by 31st of december 2014 to me as myself deserve it,will certainly prove quite normal,thanks..


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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:20 am
Paul
Nobody cares about the prize money IMO. Raise the amount to spend to equal the prize money. That would give teams a fighting chance. At least make it $9,999.99 Still. But it is a more realistic number.
As hard as it is to raise funds anyway. If you can make it more realistic it might make raising funds easier. Perhaps the N-Prize could raise more interest and funding as well.
It's your thing you do what you want but perhaps a few less laughs and a few more looks. Still a daunting task I wont drop out but I've had to turn to more realistic goals to make progress and gain funding.

Monroe

The way it works now it's going to take a multimillionaire to do it and I don't really think that's the true spirit of progress. Besides that anyone with enough money to do it is going to go another route. It does not make sense like it is. You cant raise the prize money go the other way. Even if you remove the limit completely your not going to get some rich bloke interested. It's only real charm is for the scientific difficulty and there is no one at all that can make an orbit yet anyway even with major funding.

Perhaps if you wanted to spur some new type of propulsion you should not have started with the rocket equation on the back of the envelope.

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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:32 am
Monroe, sorry neighbor, but I have to agree with Paul on this one. The tiny launch budget really does demand original thinking in a way that a larger budget never could. Rather than just squeezing existing technology into a smaller box, the restrictions of the N-Prize challenge are so close to the edge of possibility that the solution to the riddle has to come from the fringes as well. Because research and development and other “surface” expenses are not included in the equation I am confident the N-Prize launch budget can be balanced, but “we are going to have to think!”

I disagree “it’s going to take a multimillionaire” to do it, but you are right about millionaires not being interested. That’s part of the appeal of the challenge, if I understand the Chief Optimist correctly. There’s not enough money in it to attract that kind of investor. The playing field really is level. Original thinking will win the prize, not bales of money.

You have previously expressed your interest in the development of nuclear power for space flight. It’s glaringly obvious to me also that nuclear powered rockets are the future of practical space transportation, but that can wait for Paul’s next international spaceflight competition with a much richer prize. Right, Paul? Paul? Hello...? Is it just me or did anyone else hear a car door slam and screeching tires?

Well, until Paul wins the lottery and while “under the influence” of the celebration accidentally puts up a Nu-Prize for the first nuclear rocket to reach Neptune, there is still plenty of room for improvement in chemical rocket technology. There is no need to invent an entirely new propulsion system to pocket the winnings. I have no doubt we will see Paul pay up.

As for a launch budget of $9,999.99, good luck trying to talk a Brit (even an “American Brit”) into abandoning his sterling standard for the American dollar!


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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:17 am
Disagree all you like :)

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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:06 pm
USJay wrote:
The tiny launch budget really does demand original thinking in a way that a larger budget never could.

I agree completely, If Paul or anyone simply wanted someone to launch something into orbit, simply raise the dollar amount.
Monroe wrote:
You don't have to be smart or rich to get to space and beyond you just have to be willing to do the work to get there.

I 'won a prize' that others didn't bother with because the money wasn't enough to make it worth their while. It could have been the same for me except I liked the challenge and came up with some creative ways to get the job done, even exceeding the requirements (would be like doing 15 orbits for the N-Prize) and in doing so, gained information useful for other projects. After the first three attempts failed I could have asked for the 'rules to be changed' to make it easier for me instead of me working to solve the problem. Maybe that's just the teacher in me.

You do a lot of whining about funds and money stopping you. People recognize good projects to support; in my life I've seen many projects go unfunded both mine and others; I've also seen funding and grants for worthy things both mine and for others. Don't expect millionaires to come beating down your door with money to 'maybe be able' to launch a tiny payload for 9 orbits. Paul raising the amount isn't going to attract millionaires anyway unless he can raise the prize to some serious dollars. If you ever get to space, you will find people willing to help fund you, get to orbit and the money will come. Just don't expect people to shower you with money for a toy plane dropped from a weather balloon...even kids can do that.
Monroe wrote:
Honestly if your insulted by me making fun of your hobby. I've already made my point.

Why play with toy planes using chemical motors, when you can go nuclear or one of the many other propulsion designs you have? Get something like that working and I guarantee you'll be getting some real money.
Monroe wrote:
If you want to go to space. Do it!

Whether Paul makes the prize $50 or $50,000 or if he increases the allowable cost of the launch will not determine if the prize will be won. That will happen when someone builds and launches the unique vehicle to do it, probably built for another purpose that was tweaked to meet the challenge of the N-Prize rules. Change the rules around and it no longer remains the N-Prize, change enough of them and we might even be able to do it with sugar propellant. There are teams working on winning the N-Prize and that means meeting the challenge of that prize. Instead of wanting Paul to change things around to what you want the prize to be or allow you to win...why not make your own prize where you can set the rules for others in the spirit of progress. :)

Rick


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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:10 pm
Good luck with that. You never know what might turn up. Meanwhile getting to orbit is more important for me than winning the prize.

Monroe

In the end we will see who's playing with toys and who's going to space. If you think I'm all talk bet me $10,000.00 we don't kick ass to space before SS2S. Put up or shut up Mr. Rick. If I'm so off the mark you can't loose right? lol.

You don't have the balls do you. Mr. I'm right and your wrong, prove it! If you can.

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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:39 pm
Monroe wrote:
Good luck with that. You never know what might turn up. Meanwhile getting to orbit is more important for me than winning the prize.

Monroe

In the end we will see who's playing with toys and who's going to space. If you think I'm all talk bet me $10,000.00 we don't kick ass to space before SS2S. Put up or shut up Mr. Rick. If I'm so off the mark you can't loose right? lol.

You don't have the balls do you. Mr. I'm right and your wrong, prove it! If you can.

Interesting. Is there a time limit on this bet?


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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:58 pm
Why the sudden change in some of the attitudes here? What happened?

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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:58 pm
I think people are finally realizing that the N-Prize restrictions are unrealistic. I'm amazed that there are still some people that believe that the prize will be won by the end of 2014. I do believe that an amateur team will eventually put a satellite in orbit, but the cost of the mission will be much more than the N-Prize allows.


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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:19 pm
“Surely it’s impossible. Very nearly.” -- from the N-Prize website

What people are finally realizing is that the N-Prize really is very nearly impossible. But only very nearly.

“Are we serious? Yes.”

I have said before the N-Prize will not be won by the end of 2014, but I have no doubt whatsoever a launch will be accomplished within all the restrictions of the challenge. The prize can and will be won.


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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:49 pm
Monroe wrote:
In the end we will see who's playing with toys and who's going to space. If you think I'm all talk bet me $10,000.00 we don't kick ass to space before SS2S. Put up or shut up Mr. Rick. If I'm so off the mark you can't loose right? lol.

You don't have the balls do you. Mr. I'm right and your wrong, prove it! If you can.

Monroe, since you are always talking about not having money it's easy for you to want to make a $10,000 bet. Just like the N-Prize, it will take time for Sugar Shot to reach space. Are we in a competition? No, Sugar Shot is not my project, I am simply a member like I was on Team Prometheus. On Sugar Shot, we are using a very low Isp propellant to reach space, that is our goal and we have to develop creative things along the way to accomplish that. There is another team now also working on doing the same and we have talked and shared what we have learned with them. If they do it before us that will make me happy since it would vindicate the premise that a sugar based propellant can reach space.

If you are so confident, why don't you use that $10,000 to sponsor a competition as I mentioned in my post above for the next amateur rocket to get into space to help encourage others in the quest to develop economical means to reach space. You did at one time say you were going to do that. And to make it interesting, even you can compete in it. Since you said how easy it is to get into space and how far along you are, that should be an easy thing for you to do. Or if it's a contest you want will you also be using sugar?

I wish you success in reaching space but some of your posts have people wondering:
Monroe wrote:
I have posted photo's of the space shot rocket motor and 170,000cft balloon and everything else I mentioned. Just go to the FB page they are on there.

We have seen that motor and balloon picture for years now and about you going to space. Did you not promise to send someones payload on your suborbital rocket from a balloon last year? When I was on your team you mentioned that Carmack was giving the team $5,000. Turned out that he put up that money for the first team that could go to 100,000' from the launch point with some other requirements and it took several attempts by many people before the challenge was met but meet that challenge they did. And all of those by the way were done with chemical rockets from the ground.

Earlier on this thread you said:
Monroe wrote:
I'd have flown the "Q" to win the Carmack prize but it would most likely not have won. (it's a big dumb booster) If I could have gotten the 2 Stage N similar to that Jim Jarvis built and lifted it to 100kft and made a space shot and collected the prize I would have done that.

It's "dumb boosters" that get us into space, it's "dumb boosters" that got us to the moon, it's "dumb boosters" that allowed us to explore other places in our solar system. What's stopping you from making your own 2-stage N similar to Jim or Ken or others? Except for a small H or I motor you launched in a cardboard rocket from Lucerne years ago I've never seen (youtube, facebook or otherwise) any that you built and launched.

Use your $10,000 to sponsor a competition 'promoting the exploration of space' as Team Prometheus says it is all about, I could use my radio controlled X-15 Tripoli Level III project I told you about years ago off a balloon using APCP for that or any number of other projects I'm involved with. And if I won that $10,000 would come in handy supporting the student teams I work with. So you can rest assured that I would not be getting any of that money. Do you have the 'balls' to do that?

Rick


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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:59 pm
USJay wrote:
“Are we serious? Yes.”

I have said before the N-Prize will not be won by the end of 2014, but I have no doubt whatsoever a launch will be accomplished within all the restrictions of the challenge. The prize can and will be won.


Dave, many thought the Orteig Prize was impossible, many said the Ansari X-Prize was impossible, and many say the Google Lunar X-Prize is impossible but many are trying. Innovation doesn't come from things that are easy to do. Just look at all the teams in the N-Prize, some have given up (or not heard from) but that shows there is interest.
And the number of new teams has grown in the past year or two!

Rick


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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:27 pm
Rick Maschek wrote:
USJay wrote:
“Are we serious? Yes.”

I have said before the N-Prize will not be won by the end of 2014, but I have no doubt whatsoever a launch will be accomplished within all the restrictions of the challenge. The prize can and will be won.


Dave, many thought the Orteig Prize was impossible, many said the Ansari X-Prize was impossible, and many say the Google Lunar X-Prize is impossible but many are trying. Innovation doesn't come from things that are easy to do. Just look at all the teams in the N-Prize, some have given up (or not heard from) but that shows there is interest.
And the number of new teams has grown in the past year or two!

Rick



I am still interested in a verified list of current teams in the N-Prize. I believe the majority have given up. If there are more than 5 teams still actively working on it I will be very surprised.

As I have said before, if you believe it can be done, do it. Claiming something without backing it up holds no water.

@USJay, do you have a website showing your progress or are you like some other teams who get very upset when asked to show what they have done towards the N-Prize? Some teams got very defensive and now they are dust in the wind. I won't name them on here but PM me and I'll tell you who they are.

@Rick, nobody can doubt your intentions with regard to Rocketry. You are actively working the problems. If anyone can win the N-Prize it would be you.

Then, Dr. Dear, you have said in 2011 that there are teams that are so close that extending the deadline was the only option to be fair to their efforts. Where are those teams now? Two years have passed and it seems that "very close" is very relative indeed.

Watching the Falcon 9 SES-8 launch yesterday morning made me very proud of Elon Musk a South African born Entrepeneur who have done what many people here would like to do. Unfortunately not all of us are in a position to start a company like SpaceX. What we can do is to be realistic and do the best we can with what we have. If you reach space with that - great! If not, so be it.

I started an Aerospace company with no money. Actually I was in serious debt after my IT company crashed during the troubles in 2001. It has been a very difficult road to where we are today. If I can do it, anyone can.

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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:30 am
Rick you continue to blab on endlessly about what you say we are not doing! What we did was we helped Ardusat raise the 100k they didn't do that alone! Why did they pick us to help them it wasn't because of the balloon launch or rocket launch. It was because of the visibility we offered for them. That really counts more in a Kickstarter and Team Prometheus has that.

Oh it sucks it did not work out for the launch with us and I'm not going to drag the whole world into why it didn't go off because besides the helium there where other factors out of my control on the other end as well that I won't go into. Besides that we agreed to help them not finance the mission for them. Next thing I know (after the fact) We are supposed to be financing them AFTER they won the $100k

That someone you mention was Ardusat. We did our best in spite of things not really going our way and some other drastic miscommunication for months we asked for and never got. Hell I wasn't even sure they where going to come until 2 weeks before the showed up. Like I said after Stew and I both tried like hell to get them to tell us what was going on.

Yes, I misread the email from John Carmack. But who was it that caused him to offer the prize in the first place? I'm the one he directed it too and then later opened it up to everyone else. So we directly spurred that competition.

Yes, I have been aggressively seeking funding but at the same time I've put everything I have into Team Prometheus. Yes, I'm pissed we aren't getting the money but I'm doin it anyway right!

Yes, I think solid rockets are just plain dumb! Any idiot can launch a big solid. You can buy one put it together and go get a waiver from the FAA and go out to black rock and fire it. It does not take a rocket scientist or even much skill at all. It's just expensive and mostly a playboy rocket thing. Most of these guy's do no science with these rockets at all! A HUGE waste of money from my point of view.

Have you put a quarter million of your own money into SS2S? No. Are you running a team trying to make orbit, No. Is it your job to raise the funds NO, like you said your a member of a team and yeah that must be nice for you you don't have to stick your neck out or put everything you own into it. You haven't worked everyday for the last 5 years doing nothing but SS2S.

You don't do anything but try and tear down my work you are no longer my friend and you are not welcome to speak negative about a team you where on for a very short time. It is bad manners and bad business.

I could just as easily turn my attention to messing with SS2S it would be quite easy, however I have better things to do. I do wish your team well because I'd like to see Richard Nakka do it.

We are not peers as you pointed out you are no head of any team or responsible for more than your duties. I on the other hand have MUCH more at stake. You don't respect that and for sure it's because you don't understand it.

We have helped many teams and that's why we are popular! I work my ass off and I hear "we supplied hydrogen" like that's no big deal and besides that people don't contact me to provide them hydrogen they contact me for my experience.

Since Ardusat we have had quite a few successes with other teams. We won a prize, we helped out other teams. We made progress!

And now we have a kick ass team :) and we are gonna kick some ass!

I don't want to spend my 10k offering a prize I have a team to worry about but you are making it personal to me. Your not foolin me Rick your a great manipulator of words and you have 2 faces for sure I knew that the day you asked me where my money came from. Well to answer that question I WORK FOR IT.

I knew you couldn't just man up and take the bet. You just want to keep hurting me personally. That's fine but don't kid yourself your trying to be constructive because you are not. Your a dick Rick plain and simple.

See ya round the sand box. I'm done with this thread enjoy yourselves. I'm not mad about the N-Prize that's for sure Just these assholes trying to hold me back. I'm going anyway kick and scream all you want. Today's the Day! and Everyday I live that. Full speed ahead damn the torpedoes! Cause that's all you are man a torpedo. latter gator

Monroe

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Last edited by Monroe on Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:36 am, edited 2 times in total.



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Post Re: Will the prize be won by the end of 2014?   Posted on: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:17 am
Hello Johann, good to hear from you again. We can always count on you to bring the conversation back to basics. Please let me assure you your curiosity does not upset me in the slightest, but since the N-Prize challenge is a real race with a real prize (more or less, no offense Paul!) my policy has consistently been to disclose nothing. That being said, physics is on the side of success. Just barely.

For an entirely different perspective, you need look no farther than the exhaustive disclosure of all that has been accomplished with the non-competitive, purely adventurous Sugar Shot to Space program. Thankfully, Sugar Shot also keeps Rick (and many other formidably talented “Rocket Boys”) too busy to compete for the N-Prize. I wish them all the luck in the world, but not too soon!

Jay


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