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A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.

Posted by: SuperShuki - Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:33 pm
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A new mathematics to describe quantum effects. 
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Post Re: A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.   Posted on: Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:27 pm
By the way, I want to ask everyone's forgiveness if I've sounded arrogant on this forum - I have bipolar disorder, and when I am manic, I think that I am the greatest genius the world has ever known. Please take it with a grain of salt.

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Post Re: A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.   Posted on: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:20 pm
SuperShuki wrote:
Actually, SaneAlex, you may have it right. You assume that the world is fundamentally deterministic, and I believe that it isn't. The problem is, the experimental data backs up my conclusion. I have no problem using Newton's laws and Einstein's equations for classical mechanics, if the world was fundamentally deterministic according to experimental data. But Quantum mechanics isn't non deterministic for lack of data - it is fundamentally non deterministic. There is no way of knowing what level an electron will be at a given time - the most you can know is the probability that it will be at that level. So instead of trying to force determinism on a non deterministic system, as good scientists, shouldn't we accept the experimental data as it is, instead of trying to force it to conform to our imagination?


Its more correct to say of the options available so far i think the deterministic view of the universe is more likely tho the probable pseudo free will i currently have :wink: :twisted: would like the upgrade to proper free will if it could be proved logically but so far i have seen no such proof. My counter to your Quantum mechanics is fundamentally non deterministic is that we have as yet no G.U.T. that explains fully how everything from the bottom to the top fits together. So to use a real world gambling metaphor people used to think that a non fixed roulette wheel was really random but when some people who could do maths and physics really well built little computers into their shoes they started winning big time until some others who could only count well hired some guys to alter their kneecaps with baseball bats. To me as we don't yet understand how the microscopic fits in with the macroscopic makes me thing it is likely that there is a lot more to learn about the microscopic as we are very good at doing and predicting stuff with our understanding of the macroscopic. We have yet to properly understand how the quantum roulette wheel works and lets hope when we do there is not a big guy with a baseball bat waiting for us. :wink: :twisted:

SuperShuki wrote:
I didn't come up with this as a way to demonstrate that point, however - I actually think that I may have something here, a way of describing both quantum effects and classical effects according to the same mathematics. Of course, I am not a physicist, so I am probably wrong - but that doesn't stop me from at least trying. :lol:


Trying to understand how the universe works is a worthy goal and there are probably a lot of mistakes to be made in its pursuit but we can learn from our mistakes even if our free will is only pseudo and we are just programmed that way. :wink: :twisted:

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Post Re: A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.   Posted on: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:24 pm
SuperShuki wrote:
By the way, I want to ask everyone's forgiveness if I've sounded arrogant on this forum - I have bipolar disorder, and when I am manic, I think that I am the greatest genius the world has ever known. Please take it with a grain of salt.


Dont worry some of us i think have a thick skin and i suspect that when a world famous author gave me the nickname SANEAlex he may have been wielding a bit of Irony :wink: :twisted:

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Post Re: A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.   Posted on: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:58 pm
Lourens wrote:
Thermal noise: to view a molecule directly, you need to cool it down quite a bit, otherwise it moves way too fast and it's just a blur. The Planck scale is many orders of magnitude smaller than that. Measuring the position of anything down to the Planck scale is a lot more difficult than measuring the position of a football down to a single atom's size while it's being kicked around by the Spanish football team. Could this quantisation have a macroscopic effect? Well, this discussion is a macroscopic event that wouldn't have occurred if the universe wasn't quantised, so yes :-).


:D

Lourens wrote:
The interesting thing about a quantised space-time is that any enclosed volume can be described by a finite number of bits. The interesting thing about the holographic principle is that it says that that number of bits grows with the size of the surface area of the volume, not with its volume. Now that is weird! Rumour has it that physicist Erik Verlinde is doing some very interesting things with it. And note that whether the universe is quantised or not is orthogonal to whether it is deterministic or not. The fact that you can't know both the position and the momentum of a particle exactly doesn't mean that it's indeterministic, just that there's a fundamental limit to the amount of information that describes the particle.


When i heard about the holographic principle it did make me wonder if the surface of black holes act as tho they are one big quantum computer doing all possible calculations at the surface as energy/matter is added or subtracted making the multiverse view of the universe true if we and all our universe are just a subset of calculations on the surface of really large black hole. But i have not thought of any way this idea could be tested as i doubt a bunch of deterministic calculations could hack a quantum black hole computer into spawning a matter probe past the event horizon as paradoxically i think the black hole losing matter would reverse time before the calculations could be made but then again hawking radiation maybe trying to irradiate somebodies granddad. :wink: :twisted:

Lourens wrote:
Richard Feynman has an extensive explanation of this in his famous lectures on physics.


I think you need to be running Mickey$oft software to see a lot of them tho there is some stuff in the BBC archives.

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Post Re: A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.   Posted on: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:48 pm
I have a nice printed edition of "Easy & Not So Easy Pieces", which is a selection of the lectures in book form. Isn't the BBC media department run by an ex-Microsoft employee? They do seem to have gone a bit crazy on copyright and closed standards.

A probability distribution is just a function from the possible values of the random variable to the real numbers. That function (the probability distribution/density function) gives you the probability of each value occurring, So for a quantum bit, the function could be (0 -> 0.5, 1 -> 0.5) to give a 50% chance of a 0 and a 50% chance of a 1. For some random variable describing an angle in radians, the function could be 1/2*pi for x in [0, 2*pi), and 0 otherwise. There is one limitation to the function: if you sum (or integrate, in the continuous case) over all the possible values, the result must be 1. So (0 -> 0.5, 1 -> 0.7) is not a probability distribution function. Also the function must be complete (assign a probability to every possible value). If I understand you correctly, your "labels" for the slices are the possible values, and as you can see the probabilities are in fact linked to their values.

If posting some not-so-nice things on the internet is the worst thing you do when you're in a manic phase, then I think you're probably doing quite allright, but I'm not a psychologist. Also not a physicist by the way, I just read stuff and then play one on the interwebs :-).

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Post Re: A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.   Posted on: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:05 am
Laurens, I think that you have my "probability circle" described correctly. There is one thing that you can do with the "probability circle", I think, that you can't do easily with the system of probability distributions that you have described - although I could be wrong. That is, you can give a unique number, a number that describes the sum total of all aspects of the particle, and that if you have that number, and the correct laws, you can go backwards, and figure out the information components from that one number. Furthermore, you can write laws that tell you the behavior of the particle based on that unique variable.

This is what Newton did with calculus - he figured out how to take the total acceleration, and figure out from it the instantaneous change in velocity (the derivative). If we could do that with quantum particles, we can invent laws that will tell us how to work with that variable that describes each particle, in order to determine its behavior.

Surface area - what's interesting is that the conductance of electrons in a wire depends on the surface area, and not on the volume.

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Post Re: A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.   Posted on: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:21 pm
Actually, I think that there may be a magnitude - the amount of possibility for that option. You could use vectors, with each option a vector, and get the total "path" of the particle. Then it's simply a matter of writing the laws that these paths go in according to the laws of Einstein, and you have a theory of everything.

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Post Re: A new mathematics to describe quantum effects.   Posted on: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:41 pm
By the way, have I posted this poem before (actually, this probably should be on the spaceflight cafe, but this has to do with science, and I am too lazy search the forums for the right place to do it, anyway)?

Erwin Shroedindonger's cat
I've found it -
Imagine that!
Couldn't find another one
Leastways, I suppose

What its carbon half - life said
Wasn't much
It was dead
Half of it,
Because
It was
Halfway decomposed!

10 points to whoever figures out what the tune is.

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