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Static code analysis for airborne softare at armadillo?
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Spaceflight Enthusiast ![]()
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:52 am
Posts: 2 |
I recently read John's blog entry regarding his use of
static code analysis in his work at id. Great stuff. I work on safety-critical software - mostly aerospace stuff - where we use _lots_ of supposedly "high end" static verification tools, so this topic is really interesting for me. So...based on your experience at id, what are you doing with static analysis for your airborne software? Does your approach differ from that reported on the blog? If you think this topic is inappropriate for this forum, then I apologise - I've no idea how to get in touch any other way... All the best, Rod Chapman |
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Space Station Commander ![]()
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:44 am
Posts: 622 Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands |
Hi, welcome! This is the perfect place to ask this question, but Mr. Carmack hasn't been posting much lately (or really since he started a family, can't blame him at all...). Maybe Ben knows or can ask though?
I'd be surprised if he used much static verification at AA, or at all. He's always taken a build-test-build again kind of approach to building rockets, without relying much on simulations or computing things. I remember a remark in the early days of AA where he'd accidentally put a matrix in backwards, making the rocket steer with an attitude deviation, rather than against it. They found the bug when the rocket, hanging from the fork lift, turned out to be rather unstable Also, for what they're currently trying to do, the code is probably not that complex, compared to a modern 3D engine. I imagine someone of Mr. Carmack's calibre getting by just fine with some regression and unit tests. Of course, that doesn't mean that static analysis is useless. I'd be very interested in his opinion too... _________________ Say, can you feel the thunder in the air? Just like the moment ’fore it hits – then it’s everywhere What is this spell we’re under, do you care? The might to rise above it is now within your sphere Machinae Supremacy – Sid Icarus |
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Space Station Member ![]()
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 267 |
Here is his post about static code analysis:
http://altdevblogaday.com/2011/12/24/st ... -analysis/ Armadillo's code receives mostly the same treatment. |
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Space Station Commander ![]()
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:44 am
Posts: 622 Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands |
I looked into this a bit more yesterday, and also read Tim Sweeney's presentation on the topic. It seems to me that quite a few of those errors stem from C being such a primitive language, and its type system not being strong enough. For example, Java doesn't have the string processing problems that C has, or the printf type errors. Conversely, I could do quite a few of Sweeney's wishlist items in C++ today.
So, getting back on topic, what language is the AA code written in? Why? _________________ Say, can you feel the thunder in the air? Just like the moment ’fore it hits – then it’s everywhere What is this spell we’re under, do you care? The might to rise above it is now within your sphere Machinae Supremacy – Sid Icarus |
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Space Station Commander ![]()
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:47 am
Posts: 517 Location: Science Park, Cambridge, UK |
Lourens wrote: I looked into this a bit more yesterday, and also read Tim Sweeney's presentation on the topic. It seems to me that quite a few of those errors stem from C being such a primitive language, and its type system not being strong enough. For example, Java doesn't have the string processing problems that C has, or the printf type errors. Conversely, I could do quite a few of Sweeney's wishlist items in C++ today. So, getting back on topic, what language is the AA code written in? Why? Primitive = fast C Advanced = slow Java. Swings and roundabouts really. I'd guess AA code is either in C or C++. |
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Spaceflight Enthusiast ![]()
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:52 am
Posts: 2 |
FWIW, for the most critical embedded software that we do, we use SPARK - a contract-based Ada subset. I bet most readers have never hear of it though - it is something of a niche technology...
From my experience, turning up at the FAA and saying "well..it's all written in C, but don't worry becuase John's really really good..." won't get you very far... Will FAA flight software guidance apply to Armadillo? Have you seen the forthcoming DO-178C guidelines? - Rod Chapman |
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