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Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time

Posted by: Dan Frederiksen - Wed May 05, 2010 2:57 pm
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Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time 
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Space Walker
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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Thu May 27, 2010 12:49 am
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
but I will still be right and you wrong. You cannot oppose the truth and win.


Unless my very being is "wrong" you must be referring to a specific belief or set of beliefs that I have set forth. I would much rather discuss the truth or falsity of an idea than that of a person.

You are quite correct in the second part. If by "win" you mean holding correct beliefs. Truth cannot contradict truth. That is a simple statement that presumes the validity of logic. I fiercely hold to the belief that logic is valid as axiomatic.

Thus, when you propose a physical reality as trivial and self evident yet it contradicts the system of physics and mathematics, which have served me in good stead for many years, it is reasonable of me to call the "new" proposition into question.

The word "new" gets quotation marks because the ideas that you propose are not new. I have had a good deal of them myself and entertained them for the length of time required to sift them from reality. Notice that I do not say all. You do have one or two that are quite unique in their departure from my lived experience.

A final note of admission. I do posses pride, It is tough not to. It is not, however, a motivator for me. Curiosity has and always will have pride of place there. At least as my distinguishable driving characteristic. The search for and desire to love takes first precedence in humans generally.

I also have many biases. They are a useful and evolving filter that allows me to not re-invent the wheel every time I encounter stimuli. As time goes on and I contemplate new and varied circumstances and information my biases will hopefully evolve into a valid subset of truth. It is much like an offset bias in calibration. It improves my starting point.

All that to say even if I reach some incorrect conclusions now and then (I am human) my process of reaching them is reasonable and valid. It contains no lack of effort, no effort to conceal, and zero attempts to stay comfortable in ignorance.

I am sure that I disagree strongly with the other fellows here on some topics, notably religion and probably consequently in some bits of ethics, but one and all I respect their intellectual capacity (including yours) and their honest evaluation of the truth.

I have encountered no better group of fellows online. A polite and friendly bunch on the whole, intelligent, and with a healthy dose of light-hearted banter that bespeaks of genuine interest.

~daniel


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Thu May 27, 2010 1:04 am
DanielW, at least that wasn't new attack but far from taking any actual responsibility for mistakes made. Not good enough


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Thu May 27, 2010 8:00 am
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
James, I don't have to be more knowledgeable than the best formula 1 engineer ever in order to design a vehicle with decent suspension for road use.

normal car suspension is just a mcpherson strut and let's not pretend that is the holy grail of suspension. it's just a spring and an absorber that works through wasting energy by fluid compression. it is very far from the ideal suspension for a vehicle. but it is adequate for now.

johno didn't post a message because I erred. he posted one because he erred.


The McP strut isn't particularly good (terrible geometry changes under bump and droop), but it is cheap and able to be packaged in a small area - very important in small cars with limited space. Interesting - the only reason you need power steering in small cars is because of the heavy steering geometry produced as a result of using McP struts in the smallest possible space). However, there are many better systems (Most performance cars use the relatively simple but expensive to implement double wishbone system - but even these come in a infinite number of varieties - my race car has very light steering - no power required - because of decent geometry). I think you are in for a bit of shock when you come to implementing your suspension - its far more than a shock and a spring. I suggest you get a book on suspension design, and there are plenty to chose from, before just throwing something together otherwise you are going to crash your car on the first corner - esp. if it has the performance you claim.


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Thu May 27, 2010 1:34 pm
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
...I'm right ... the problem is you, not me...I am right. and opposing me is one mindless attack after another with brief interludes of limited reason and then sharp reversion to mindless attack and opposition despite any amount of truth...I will still be right and you wrong. You cannot oppose the truth and win...called the sin of pride. it's where you deny the truth out of fear of losing face. it's a mindless state since a mindful person would let reason rule and know that denying the truth doesn't make it any less true and will only compound error....
And you think we are blinded by pride?!?!?BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
*wipes tear*
Oh my, that is just too good.

you are so high and mighty, and yet you preach to us about pride...lol... dude, that is a classic. You know, I've not actually conversed with someone so egomaniacal as you. Probably never will again. But that's ok, its Gems like the one above that give me a good smile and a laugh in the morning. You yell and scream and jump around furiously trying to get us to see your "Truth" yet you are so blinded by your own pride and ego that you fail to consider that those around you are human beings and deserve respect. You utterly FAIL to recognize that there are many many people on this forum that are far more knowledgable than you on many topics. Because of your beligerant narcicism, you are fighting off those who would otherwise gladly help you. You are hindering your own progress and advancement because you can't get past yourself and the fact that (perish the thought) you are WRONG about something, but hey, if you want to burn bridges, go for it.
Oh... and no matter how "right" you are... your attitude and disrespect for others makes it all wrong.
considering not even the Jaws of Life and a hydraulic winch could pull your head out of your sphincter, I do give others credit for still trying to get through to you. Many have tried to extend to olive branch to you, only to have you beat them over the head with it. And those kind of actions, to me, are a sign of a lack of intelligence. you can have all the 'knowledge' in the world and still be an idiot. Think about that one for a bit. maybe, just maybe a twitch of current will get to that burnt out bulb in your head and a flicker of light migh, just might, light up the darkness inside your skull.


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Thu May 27, 2010 3:59 pm
Dan obviously has some psycological issues. It's just not nice to pick on him. Have some compassion for the guy.

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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Fri May 28, 2010 8:32 am
MFL wrote:
[
considering not even the Jaws of Life and a hydraulic winch could pull your head out of your sphincter


Awesome!!


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Mon May 31, 2010 8:16 pm
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
You are the petty minds who want to be allowed to make any amount of mistakes [...] and are angered by being held accountable.
What is your obsession with mistakes? You keep going on and on about mistakes and being responsible for them. We all make mistakes, all the time. We're human! That's what we're supposed to do!

There is no problem whatsoever with making mistakes. Realising that you are wrong and why is learning. And what makes a great person great is not that they don't make mistakes, on the contrary. It's that they do things, and get them wrong, and realise that, and don't give up but simply say "Aha! That doesn't work" and go and try again in a different way. Over and over again.

And so Tsiolkovsky wasted stacks of paper on formulas that didn't work, Von Braun blew up lots of rockets, the Soviets killed a whole group of high-ranking officials in an explosion, NASA lost three astronauts in a capsule fire, but in the end, Neil Armstrong planted his bootprints on the moon (after making a re-entry mistake in an X-15 and nearly crashing an F-104).

None of these things would have happened if the people involved had been afraid to make mistakes. None of our engineering advances of the past centuries would have been made. So make mistakes, please, everyone. And support others when they do so. Without mistakes we'd have gone extinct long ago.

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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Mon May 31, 2010 8:49 pm
Lourens, my obsession is with the truth. obviously.
and they aren't learning from mistakes. they mindlessly and violently oppose admitting any mistakes and desperately move on to make new ones. and when confronted with that behavior further attacks me.
and you just did the same


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:46 am
Lourens wrote:
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
You are the petty minds who want to be allowed to make any amount of mistakes [...] and are angered by being held accountable.
What is your obsession with mistakes? You keep going on and on about mistakes and being responsible for them. We all make mistakes, all the time. We're human! That's what we're supposed to do!

There is no problem whatsoever with making mistakes. Realising that you are wrong and why is learning. And what makes a great person great is not that they don't make mistakes, on the contrary. It's that they do things, and get them wrong, and realise that, and don't give up but simply say "Aha! That doesn't work" and go and try again in a different way. Over and over again.

And so Tsiolkovsky wasted stacks of paper on formulas that didn't work, Von Braun blew up lots of rockets, the Soviets killed a whole group of high-ranking officials in an explosion, NASA lost three astronauts in a capsule fire, but in the end, Neil Armstrong planted his bootprints on the moon (after making a re-entry mistake in an X-15 and nearly crashing an F-104).

None of these things would have happened if the people involved had been afraid to make mistakes. None of our engineering advances of the past centuries would have been made. So make mistakes, please, everyone. And support others when they do so. Without mistakes we'd have gone extinct long ago.


Wow. You said that very nicely, Lourens.

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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:42 pm
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
Lourens, my obsession is with the truth. obviously.
and they aren't learning from mistakes. they mindlessly and violently oppose admitting any mistakes and desperately move on to make new ones. and when confronted with that behavior further attacks me.
and you just did the same


Armadillo admits to mistakes all the time in their blog.

Their blog is basically ongoing analysis of their mistakes and the changes they have made because of them.

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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:10 am
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
Lourens, my obsession is with the truth. obviously.
and they aren't learning from mistakes. they mindlessly and violently oppose admitting any mistakes and desperately move on to make new ones. and when confronted with that behavior further attacks me.
and you just did the same


Are you talking about the same Armadillo everyone else is? Because as Louren's says, much of their developments has been entirely publicly documented on their website - mistakes and all. I think there are probably some recent issues that have not been so, but only because of commercial issues. They even told everyone about the recent big crash of one of their craft.

So, what mistakes are they not admitting to (although by definition, you couldn't possibly know that, because they havent been admitted to...).

I believe the process you refer to is known as design-build-test-modify. They build stuff, test it, modify it and repeat. The process is designed to highlight problems and advantages, and does it well. It is diametrically opposite to what NASA do, which is design design design and launch once. Both schemes have their advantages, but Armadillo have shown that their process is quite fast, certainly at the sizes they are working at, and works for them.


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:53 pm
To be fair, with the increasing availability of large amounts of compute power, more and more engineering work is being moved to a design-model-simulate-redesign cycle, which is essentially the same, except it's done virtually, thus saving a lot of money because bits are cheaper than atoms. See e.g. the Bloodhound SSC team on aerodynamics.

CFD and other simulation technologies don't seem to be able to replace all real-world testing though, and even if you could create the best possible design using only simulation, that won't teach you how to build it. So perhaps what AA are doing is hardware/production-techniques co-design?

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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:22 am
I think simulation (for design rather than use) does have its uses, esp. for aero work, but for the basic design work AA are doing, the data needed to make a useful simulation probably doesn't yet exist. (I could be wrong, so if anyone out there has software to simulate the interior of a rocket engine during firing, please tell!) They could (and probably should) use CFD when they get to the point of designing the aerodynamic part of the craft, but, on the other hand, sticking a vaguely aerodynamic nose cone on it is probably all they need to do anyway!

The way AA work it would probably be quicker to knock something up and test it, than to simulate it! This will change as their craft get larger and more complex though.


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:39 pm
Lourens wrote:
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
You are the petty minds who want to be allowed to make any amount of mistakes [...] and are angered by being held accountable.
What is your obsession with mistakes? You keep going on and on about mistakes and being responsible for them. We all make mistakes, all the time. We're human! That's what we're supposed to do!


Some people keep busy by looking for mistakes in other peoples work, so that they can avoid having to look at the ones they've got themselves.


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Post Re: Do we live forever that we can afford to waste time   Posted on: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:17 pm
I'd say the main goal of simulation is to make mistakes cheaper, so that you can make as good a design with less money. Or make a better design (based on more mistakes) with the same amount of money. I can well imagine it costing Armadillo more to create simulation software and getting the compute power for it, than it costs them to just build the thing and see how well it works.

At some point the hardware is going to be expensive enough that it pays to simulate, but Armadillo are (apparently) below that threshold, and they probably try very hard to stay there. Expensive hardware makes for expensive rides, too.

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