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Motion induction propulsion engines

Posted by: inventor - Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:20 am
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Motion induction propulsion engines 
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Post Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:20 am
Two circuit boards, sensors and electrically operated valves are used as the means of generating and regulating the unit’s stages of operation. The circuit boards are mounted to the particular unit’s engine block. One of the board is the “cycle control circuit board” (cycle board) and the other is the “engine stroke circuit board” (stroke board). The cycle board determines when and if the stroke board turns on. A few wires go from the cycle board (speed and power control) to the controller the driver uses.

The CMIE cycle has 4 strokes or stages, power, exhaust, induction and compression. The exhaust, induction and compression stages occur when the modified pistons are being push back to the small cylinder. This is how the engine stages occurs beginning with the power stage. The presence of the pistons at the small cylinder is detected by sensors. The signals are then passed to the stroke board which then energizes the spark plug. When a piston is on either side of the small cylinder the combustion chamber is closed. The combustion explosion occurs and pushes both pistons forward and there is moderate recoil in the engine which is countered by the weight of the engine, vehicle weight and any forward force in the vehicle. I should also mention that the CMIE modified pistons are heavier than normal pistons.

Long low power spring mechanisms are used as cushions for the modified pistons. These springs will ease the pistons onto the vehicle and allow the pistons’ energy to dissipate through them into the vehicle pushing it. After the pistons’ energy is induced into the vehicle the power of the springs will then be enough to push them backward. The pistons are detected by sensors at the bottom ends of the cylinder and so the stroke board opens the exhaust valve, and keeps it open for a specific short time. This time period allows the pressurize exhaust to exit the cylinder. After that time the stroke board closes the exhaust valve and at the same time opens the induction valve. The induction valve is also kept open for a certain time and then is closed. As the pistons continue their backward travel they compress the fuel. When the pistons arrive at the small cylinder they are detected and the stroke board fires the spark plug initializing the power stage, and the cycle begins again.

If the time period for the evacuation of the exhaust is inadequate even though it is adjustable a mechanism can be used so that the exhausted fuel is sucked from the cylinder to remove it completely. Another mechanism that can be used if needed to completely evacuate the exhaust is to use a port just above the pistons when they are at the bottom ends of the cylinder and blow pressurize air through this port to force the exhaust out. If the speed of the induction of fuel is inadequate the fuel can be induced under pressure.

This kind of engine vibrates resulting in pulses of thrusts (impulse).

Spring mechanisms are used before the pistons and after them and are always in contact with the pistons. The forward springs are stronger than the fly back springs. The forward springs are the springs between the pistons and the bottom ends of the cylinder and the fly back springs are between the pistons and the small cylinder. The fly back spring mechanisms prevent the pistons point from entering two far into the small cylinder. The point parts of the pistons are focus points for the explosion.

Their can be variation in the manner use for fuelling, ignition, exhaust and compression of a combustion engine system.

Making the mechanics of the engine electrically dependent also allows the engine to be easily tweaked and managed.


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:10 am
Is this jack-hammer intended to be a reaction-mass-less vehicle? If not, then what is it supposed to do really? If so then see Newton, Sir Isaac. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion

cheers

~Dan

[edit] Actually this wikipedia article does an adequate job (read better than I could do) of describing the implications to the conservation of momentum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionless_drive


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:06 am
inventor wrote:
Long low power spring mechanisms are used as cushions for the modified pistons. These springs will ease the pistons onto the vehicle and allow the pistons’ energy to dissipate through them into the vehicle pushing it. After the pistons’ energy is induced into the vehicle the power of the springs will then be enough to push them backward.


You are using similar springs on both sides of the pistons. Why don't the springs also push the combustion chamber block in the same way that they push the other side of the engine?

johno


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:54 pm
johno wrote:
You are using similar springs on both sides of the pistons. Why don't the springs also push the combustion chamber block in the same way that they push the other side of the engine?


Along the same lines.....
as a consequence of using springs, each one is going to wear differnetly.
neither of your cyliders, at least as shown in the diagram, are shown to be tied to each other. this is something critical to loonk at for the following reason: friction. because of Friction and the differences in the springs, the two (or more) cylinders will not be exactly in phase with each other, and will continue to drift out of phase, reducing your cmbustion efficiency as well as any intended momentum transfer to the case.

Johno pointed out another issue with the springs. not sure if this si what he was getting at, but when the pistons push agains the springs, the springs essentially become kenetic energy storage devices. now, when the piston ceases its foward motion, then the spring is at max potential energy, and will release. that energy will be transfered to where it has the "least resistance" to use an electrical analogy. in this case, that will be the piston, whose mass, i am guessing, is much less than that of the case. some fo that energy will be transfered to the case, but without doing the math, it is probably safe to assume that it will be negligible.

Now, i am not trying to sit here and trash all over your ideas, :) please don't take this that way. I'm just trying to help point out considerations for your concept. just as I would hope poeple would do for me if/when i post my concepts and ideas

Mike


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:07 am
Hi guys, this is an AEMIE (advance electromagnetic motion induction engine) unit.

I will label the parts and explain how it works at another time. I have been trying to get people from nasa, space adventures etc to take a look at it but I am just not getting through. Any ideas?

We are on the verge of a very commercially profitable space tourism industry and a new engine is desperately needed. The cost to space tourist’s needs to be reduce and reduce drastically this can be done by using a better and more efficient engine. Instead of launching a vehicle to space the vehicle can be ascended or flown into space. Ascending a vehicle into space is like a helicopter vertically taken off but the vertical ascent is not stopped until the vehicle is in space. “Ascension” can be the new way but a certain type of engine is required. What would you say to using MIEs in space cars?

I propose MIEs as the solution to our space engine problems particular the AEMIE. All I ask is that businesses within the space industry have their technical people take a look at the specifications they have nothing to lose.

I would like for them to know about it and avail themselves of a new engine technology.

The AEMIE is a far more elegant engine than the CMIE and has several variations some of which are far better than this one.


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Last edited by inventor on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:32 am
I guess this means that you did not read the wikipedia article. Look up the mathematics of Conservation of momentum. Once you can find away around the mathematics (logically impossible) then create a device to fit, not the other way around.


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:51 am
What does it do other than spin?

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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:02 pm
It would be polite to answer the questions that people have asked you about your original engine design before you start looking for input and comments on this new variant. I suspect the reason you haven't had any luck contacting NASA about this concept is because they know it won't work. It might be possible to use relativistic physics to induce momentum in some kind of engine, but the parts will have to move at a significant fraction of the speed of light relative to each other (>90%c). Good luck with that.

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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:01 pm
Johno- While I have not personally done the math. Conservation of momentum has been proven for both special and general relativities. Any violation of the law requires a preferred reference frame (that of the craft) I doubt the universe would pick our inventor's spaceship for it's favorite and absolute reference frame.

I do agree that he should address design #1 before soliciting comments on design #2. But, I think a discussion of how it is theoretically possible should come before any discussions of design. I will take working prototypes though. It's tough to argue with empirical evidence.


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:23 pm
DanielW wrote:
Johno- While I have not personally done the math. Conservation of momentum has been proven for both special and general relativities. Any violation of the law requires a preferred reference frame (that of the craft) I doubt the universe would pick our inventor's spaceship for it's favorite and absolute reference frame.

I do agree that he should address design #1 before soliciting comments on design #2. But, I think a discussion of how it is theoretically possible should come before any discussions of design. I will take working prototypes though. It's tough to argue with empirical evidence.


Yeah, I wasn't sure about the relativistic physics, but I suspected that momentum induction might be possible. I accept that it probably won't work even if the impossible materials required to build it were available. I am just trying to help inventor to see why it won't work, but I think he's ignoring my comments now. What I'd like him to answer next is to tell us what kind of efficiency he expects this engine to achieve compared to conventional chemical rockets. In other words, how much momentum can this produce per kilo of fuel/oxidizer compared to a simple hydrogen peroxide rocket. If it can't come anywhere near that kind of efficiency, there's no point in using this engine.

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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:11 pm
Quote:
What I'd like him to answer next is to tell us what kind of efficiency he expects this engine to achieve compared to conventional chemical rockets.


The good news is that it will generate some thrust in whatever direction he points his exhaust. Other than that he can put the whole thing at the focus of a big parabolic reflector and the heat radiation will give a bit of impulse.

Quote:
I am just trying to help inventor to see why it won't work


Yeah I admire your patience. I don't really mean to tease myself, as this is something that I tried to do half a short lifetime ago. I was already hooking up a stepper motor with a weight on one side when I finally did the math.

An old electrician, that was heading up my highschool's electric vehicle team assured me that it would not work, but at the same time told me how to test it.


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:51 pm
Hi genii

You guys should remember I am not as educated or intelligent as you genii. So could you break down you questions in simple terms preferably using simple examples maybe then with my simplistic mind I will be able to understand what you mean and reply, thank you.


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:32 pm
inventor wrote:
Hi genii

You guys should remember I am not as educated or intelligent as you genii. So could you break down you questions in simple terms preferably using simple examples maybe then with my simplistic mind I will be able to understand what you mean and reply, thank you.


You don't need to be a genius or highly educated to understand why this design is unworkable. The schools in Ireland teach Newtons Laws of Motion to 12 year old children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion
At normal densities and velocities these laws describe how forces and matter interact with each other. These principles are used to help engineers design structures and engines of all sorts, that perform as expected in the real world. These Laws can also be used to demonstrate that your design won't work. For each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

If you can find a way to operate a machine in violation of these laws, a space car should be very low down on your list of things to build. A working perpetual motion machine would change everything about our modern world, by making it possible to produce an infinite amount of free energy. That energy could be used in a number of theoretical space propulsion systems, and could operate forever without needing to be fueled. We could build electrical devices would no longer require a connection to the power grid. We could build portable devices would never have to be recharged. We could build cars that never have to be refueled. Your space car engine could be built using a free source of power so no fuel would be needed to provide the combustion, you could use gas compressed for free in another part of the machine.

The downside to breaking Newtons Laws of Motion, is that every machine that currently exists would have to stop working, or at least stop working the way they currently do, because all of them rely on those Laws. Additionally, biological and chemical processes which rely on physics would be altered, possibly leading to the end of life as we know it.

johno


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:18 pm
--johno wrote

You are using similar springs on both sides of the pistons. Why don't the springs also push the combustion chamber block in the same way that they push the other side of the engine?

johno
-----

--If you read a bit further down the passage it says that the fly back spring mechanism is weaker than the forward spring mechanism.
--During the pistons fly back the forward springs do push on the combustion chamber block it’s just that the force with which they do it is not very great. That is why it’s best to use low power spring mechanisms, they should be just strong enough to push back the pistons. But also the fly back cushions counter the force of the forward cushions further diminishing the force of the forward cushions. The pistons forward motion is the power drive the fly back force is low.

-----
The diagram of the CMIE (combustion motion induction engine) I presented in a recent post was that of a single unit of the CMIE not of the CMIE on a whole. Motion induction engines are decentralize engines, unlike the centralize engine you find in a car. It is more like a jet engine in that you may use 2, 3 or 4 on an airplane. Analogous to the CMIE each jet engine would be a “jet engine unit” or simply “unit”. These engines would occur as units, and then the units are organized to form engines. For instance, if you are building an airborne road car, to lift the car from the ground you would place a unit next to each wheel of the car inside the body of the car. If you wanted to put an MIE on a normal car (road driven only car) you would use 5 units in a certain configuration. Units are used to form engines as required by the particular vehicle. In relation to motion induction engines, engines are units organize in a certain ways to provide a particular function or functions. A vehicle can have several engines.

One of the main reason people give as to why the CMIE unit will not work is this, that the counterforce generated within the engine (unit) will cancel the unit’s forward motion, therefore it will not work.

It may appear at first sight that the counterforce generated by the combustion explosion cancels the forward force of the modified pistons but this is not really the case. This becomes clearer when it’s given a closer look. And it’s important to realize that within the unit there is space for things to move about “clearance”.

If you look at the (CMIE) unit as a gun with its mouth sealed there is a better understanding of it.

This is why I think it will work, and I will admit that this engine needs to be built to be certain of its functionality.

I expect the forward force of a bullet to be a whole lot greater than the recoil of the gun. Because of a certain effect, I named the effect “force polarization”. Which would you say have the greater force when the gun is fired, the gun or the bullet or would you say both have equal force? Analogous to the CMIE the bullet would be the modified pistons and the gun the engine block or combustion cylinder. “Force polarization” (my definition) is the tendency of a force or energy to go in the direction of the path of lease resistance, and so acquires a direction and travels mainly in that direction.

I agree that the CMIE unit like a gun will experience some recoil. The recoil however will be reduce because the cylinder is a half circle with two outlets. A gun is like a normal combustion cylinder that would be found in a car’s engine, the back of the gun being the flat sealed area of the cylinder (where the valves, spark plug are) and the bottom of the cylinder being the mouth section of the gun. If the gun’s back was curved to the side the force of the recoil would be less because the recoil force would not come directly backward but toward the side of the back of the gun. Okay now you have this recoil energy going mainly toward the side of the gun. The idea is to use this otherwise useless and discarded energy for something useful, and so to use it I curve around the side of the gun and put on another gun mouth area with another bullet area. So now you have a gun that looks like the CMIE unit combustion cylinder a half circle with straight ends. And use the same combustion explosion twice. If the exhaust output of a rocket is used in this way the power of a rocket could be doubled. But to continue, as the explosive force begins to push in the path of lease resistance which occurs instantaneously the force of the explosion travels in the direction of the modified pistons as the force before the pistons is lower than the force behind it. The length of the straight portions of the cylinder gives the pistons a lot of room to basically run free, so that the path of lease resistance is before the modified pistons so the force will follow this particular direction.

Energy or force always takes the path of lease resistance traveling in the direction from high energy to low energy until both energies or force is equal. Also as energy flow off the force within on other points decreases.

The gun’s force would not be equal to the bullets force because the shooter is a force behind the gun so the path of lease resistance would still be the area before the bullet. Analogous to the CMIE the weight of the engine block, the weight and mass of the vehicle plus any forward force in the vehicle would be the shooter behind the gun.

These are examples of what I mean by force polarization.

--The heat from hot water flows into cold water that is the direction.
--In the car engine’s combustion cylinder the piston is the path of lease resistance for the combustion explosion. So the force expands in the direction of the piston.
--A boiler bursts at its weakest point and the steam energy flows out into the surrounding area because the surrounding area, atmosphere pressure is lower than the pressure of the steam. So the flow of energy is from the boiler to the atmosphere. If our atmosphere pressure was higher than the pressure of the boiler the direction of energy flow would be from our atmosphere into the boiler and the burst would be into the boiler not out of it.

Energy flows from high to low that is the direction of energy.

Energy flows until energy equality is reached.

--Force polarization effect is also shown in guns, where the bullet is impelled by the high force behind it and the low force before it. What will be the direction of the energy flow? This is why low power springs are used before the modified pistons and space (straight portions of the cylinder) is given; they create a low energy area to encourage the combustion explosion to push the modified pistons in the required direction. The space that is provided by the straight portions of the cylinder provides room for the pistons to accelerate and fully absorb the force of the explosion. These cylinder straight portions space also expands the volume of the cylinder as the modified pistons moves forward (more of the cylinder is exposed to the combustion). The straight portions space also gives clearance to the vehicle to move independent of the modified pistons, the pistons can move in the cylinder no matter how the vehicle moves.

The area of low energy is before the bullet and the area of high energy behind it during the explosion.

When the bullet strikes the sealed inside mouth of the gun from across the spring mechanism the vehicle would move forward. The repetitive striking or thrust puts the vehicle in motion. The CMIE unit does not throttle or idle it turns on only on immediate use as once it comes on there is no transmission mechanism to disengage it.

----------------------------

--MLF wrote

Along the same lines.....
as a consequence of using springs, each one is going to wear differnetly.
neither of your cyliders, at least as shown in the diagram, are shown to be tied to each other. this is something critical to loonk at for the following reason: friction. because of Friction and the differences in the springs, the two (or more) cylinders will not be exactly in phase with each other, and will continue to drift out of phase, reducing your cmbustion efficiency as well as any intended momentum transfer to the case.

Johno pointed out another issue with the springs. not sure if this si what he was getting at, but when the pistons push agains the springs, the springs essentially become kenetic energy storage devices. now, when the piston ceases its foward motion, then the spring is at max potential energy, and will release. that energy will be transfered to where it has the "least resistance" to use an electrical analogy. in this case, that will be the piston, whose mass, i am guessing, is much less than that of the case. some fo that energy will be transfered to the case, but without doing the math, it is probably safe to assume that it will be negligible.

Now, i am not trying to sit here and trash all over your ideas, please don't take this that way. I'm just trying to help point out considerations for your concept. just as I would hope poeple would do for me if/when i post my concepts and ideas

Mike


I did not think they were perceived as being separate cylinders, I will amend the diagram. It’s actually one single cylinder shaped within the engine block and built up in the half circle area to produce a small cylinder area.

No problem mike, I appreciate everyone’s comment, it’s important to see things from other people’s point of view, it gives you a better understanding of things and it helps you to improve the product.

I will get back to you about google sketch up. I do need more professionally looking diagrams.

The concept with the jack hammers it not completely clear but I think you may have the idea. Give me the concept again. There is an air pressure version of the MIE though its call APMIE (air pressure motion induction engine). Tell you latter.


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Post Re: Motion induction propulsion engines   Posted on: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:53 pm
My patience is running thin so I'm only going to say this one more time.
inventor wrote:
I expect the forward force of a bullet to be a whole lot greater than the recoil of the gun.

You're wrong.
inventor wrote:
Because of a certain effect, I named the effect “force polarization”. Which would you say have the greater force when the gun is fired, the gun or the bullet or would you say both have equal force?

It is incorrect to say that either of them have force. They have momentum. The momentum is calculated by multiplying their mass by their velocity, so the units are expressed as kgm/s. Both the gun and the bullet have equal momentum, this is an established scientific fact, proven through countless experiments. If the bullet weighs 10 grams and the gun weighs 5000 grams, the bullet will be moving at 500 times the speed of the gun. We have already explained this to you and given you links to learn more. It is an elementary principle of physics. Funnily enough it's also the principle behind the rocket engine. If your invention will work then rocket engines can't work, but rocket engines do work. I guess that means yours doesn't.

If you are aged somewhere between 12 and 16 then your mistakes are understandable, but you have alluded that you are an adult with your talk of patents and prototypes and such. I tried to design perpetual motion machines when I was a child, and I learned a lot of science by failing at it, so I can't fault you for that. Ranting about your own particular hunches and theories that contradict established truths just makes you look foolish though. I have spent a lot of time trying to show you where you are going wrong but you are unwilling to listen.

johno


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