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Walmart to the Moon

Posted by: Stan Bernard - Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:56 am
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Walmart to the Moon 
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Post Walmart to the Moon   Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:56 am
We are the failed generation, history will look back and call this lull in activity the equivalent of the dark ages.. design and production of manned space vehicles effectively stopped in the 1970's.
We do not have an answer to the British French Concorde( expensive and too small to be practical) but it pointed to a future that no aerospace firm in america ever claimed. What a shame, materials and finite element analysis must have advanced since the 60's and yet none of the major players or their investors seem to have been able to translate that into a practical design. Mockups and test beds are everywhere.. funding is spent and projects shelved and moth balled for lack of a ready market.
NASA for all of the money the American taxpayer has given them has failed,
they have failed to educate, inform, build any sort of public interest in the future of spaceflight. Time after time they have proven themsleves unresponisve to public requests for re-imaging of certain features on Mars.
The arrogance of the high cabal continues and as we watch the Chineese prepare to go to the moon, with a moon base planned.. My question is what have you been doing for the last 3 decades.. Mars has been waiting and we are waiting.. we want to go to mars... but maybe a Lunar mission needs to be undertaken as a dress reheasal. Everytime we shop at Walmart the Chinese war chest for space exploration is given another boost
So now the balls in the private sectors court a ballistic toss into outerspace while it may capture the worlds attention breifly..
The larger issues of NASA's failure to LEAD their extraordainary lack of vision
is just mind boggling.. We need to be manufacturing in orbit the things we need to colonize space.. how can we do that without reliable , cost efficient launch systems.. you have had 30 years..Its time to bring things to a halt
look to the past and then grasp the reins and lead on to the future.. First a launch system less complex more efficient.. second an expanded space station committed to the building in orbit of technologies in support of manned lunar and mars missions... L5 points, Helium 3 from the moon....Space eleveators and more unmanned missioins would have to wait. We need to get control of the monolith that is NASA and all of the funding that it uses and start directing the funding in a War time footing sort of effort to get things done.. Time to dumb it down and get things done
Or you can wait another 30 years for nothing to happen.. I challenge NASA to prove me wrong... show me where and when we are going anywhere.. show me the plans , the launch vehicles and the ability to get things done
The moon missions took a decade... you have 5 years now.. show me something .. anything I can believe in... We have all been waiting for far too long..


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:29 am
You're right... almost everyone knows that the space is the future...
If the US waits now, they will let other countries (China, India, Japan) get close to them, or let bypass them.
Chinese may be described as yellow and short, but they have a huge potential..

Personally I even don't care if China would be first, but I do care, if the US (nasa) would just keep the slow problem spirit like now...
Also nasa has a large potential, but they should use it, build a base on the moon, get to mars, get a new space shutle that can get out of earth's orbit and maybe even fly to mars and LAND on mars with an airfield build over there with a base permanent manned.
And make the new shutle ALSO starting horizontal like orriginal planned, but it was changed to vertical with rockets cause of budget cuts (it would have saved 2 space shuttles (both reasons where at vertical start), a lot of boeiing flights etc..., so maybe less then the budget cut was in the development times)

Nasa needs a new LARGE goal, in the very near future...
(Does anyone know what happened to the proposal of a few senators in the US to give Nasa a new goal ?)
Most local people over here in belgium (europa) even don't care about space or technology, so also public information and advertisement world wide should be made more available, nasa in the usa, esa in europe, ...

Because of nasa, slow large developments, I'm now intrested in X Prise! keep on working fella's and fellow humans :)
As a belgian 3D Game programmer, I even would love to help when possible.. and that's with telling my friends of the xprize, space, etc...
And if someone needs help, I may offer my support, but I won't annoy the teams when they don't need it, else I would slow don't their development ;)

Kinds Regards,
Sigurd


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:36 am
You pompous Europeans. "Failed generation" -- speak for yourself. Efforts in space may have stalled, but look at the revolution in information technology that has taken place in the past 20 years. If there was an imperative to colonize space, the US government would have achieved it. But there are issues here on earth that need to be attended to. Space will happen, but don't blame anyone's government or agency because it hasn't. Stay on your high horse. American private enterprise will soon (Probably before the end of this year) have achieved man suborbital spaceflight and private orbital flight is probably no further than a decade behind.

There is no reason for Chinese manned space flight other than national pride. If you think it's about exploration, you are mistaken. They are reinventing the wheel (actually just copying what the Soviets and US did decades ago) in an effort to prop up a failing and irrelevant central government.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 3:32 am
Anonymous wrote:
You pompous Europeans. "Failed generation" -- speak for yourself. Efforts in space may have stalled, but look at the revolution in information technology that has taken place in the past 20 years. There is no reason for Chinese manned space flight other than national pride. If you think it's about exploration, you are mistaken. They are reinventing the wheel (actually just copying what the Soviets and US did decades ago) in an effort to prop up a failing and irrelevant central government.
I am a Canadian first off. John F Kennedy had the vison NASA and the country stepped up to the bar.. In the decades that followed political and technological willpower were exerted in other directions than manned space fight. Re-inventing the wheel.. they are going to the moon... to establish a lunar base... we have had 30 years and we have been unable to muster a lift cability or a significant space based infrastructure to support future manned missions. Its all well and good to look to private enterprise for innovation and ideas, but the question must be asked what have NASA done with the funds they have been entrusted with.. NASA has done great feats, and is clearly superior to just about any other nationally based organizatin but that was then and this is now.
Another shuttle lost with a crew on a mission profile that left them with a lack of fuel to reach the safety of the ISS which was unprepared to deal with that eventaullity anyway... so what the hell have we been doing for thirty years.. Dont take such offense at a laymans view of the facts, I dont want to wait another decade for orbital flight, I dont want to wait that long for supersonic trans oceanic flights... If we can go to the moon in ten years we can go to MARS in 5.. we have had 30 years of lead time..lets go.
No more probes and rovers that are sent to areas where there is no public interest... Arthur C Clark has seen pictures which he declared looked like trees on MARS NASA remains silent and continues to show us rocky vistas.
Cydonia holds promise for discovery at least as important as any other spot
and with the double bonus of the ignition of public interest and support for the agency..NASA & JPL Malin Space Science systems stoically look anywhere else .There has been a fraud perpetrated on the American public , a three card monte shell game, that continues to this day.
X prize is a beacon of hope, which at the same time illuminates NASA's failures to lead the way. 3 decades ... its time to stop and reflect and then move forward with focussed funding for MARS manned exploration now..
30 years and a gutted space station and an aging STS is our tenuous hand hold on heavens gate.. IS THAT what we get for the money we spent.. MARS now 5 years no more, Cydonia first . I challenge NASA to get the will show the spirit and ignite the public interest in funding a manned mission to mars.. You have had 30 years times up.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:26 pm
Quote:
IS THAT what we get for the money we spent..


I haven't seen Canada leading the charge to get anywhere... The overpriced Canadaarm seems to work well, but don't speak for a country in which you don't live.

I'm an American taxpayer and I'm not displeased with NASA, although it would be nice to see us leave LEO again.


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Post Walmart & Moon bases   Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:19 pm
Anonymous wrote:
Quote:
,don't speak for a country in which you don't live.
I'm an American taxpayer and I'm not displeased with NASA, although it would be nice to see us leave LEO again.


Try not to be too thin skinned, if the negative tone and tenor offends you then your missing the point. We should be so much further on than we are, who knew that 30 years later the manned flight program would be languishing in LEO. Dont let hubris blind you to the facts.

China is going to moon. China has a moonbase planned.
Where is America going and when. The defense rests.


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Post What is the XPRIZE all about?   Posted on: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:37 pm
Hey Y'all! You have missed the point. Yes NASA is without direction.

If we are to rapidly expand into space, we need multiple teams, from around the world and especially from the USA, laying the foundation of engineering design and attracting the venture capital to get there. OH! Isn't that what the XPRIZE is all about?


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Post Open Source rocket design   Posted on: Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:54 pm
For what it matters, I think that progress in travel to the various celestial destnations we have in mind will depend less on national programmes and more on commercial ones. Perhaps something that would help things along would be an open-source collaborative approach to rocket design. We all want cheap, reliable space flight, in whatever country we live. International collaboration in rocket and space-plane design could speed things up a lot. It wouldn't eliminate healthy compeition, because you still have to build something. 8)


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Post    Posted on: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:08 pm
We are all talking and moaning about countries and continents, geez, grow up please.
If we want to go to space, you cant look at yourself as an American, a Canadian, Dutchmen, German or whatever nation your from. Look from orbit onto earth, do you see any boundries? I certainly dont, in space we are all alike. So we should put aside our petty differences, work together and get into space.

The biggest problem we have is that we cannot put aside our petty differences. America, and the western world, still look at China as a communistic land which will be a threat to everyone if they get onto to moon. Which is obviously ridiculously imo.

The ISS is an international cooperation but has been budgetted on a much smaller scale then the budget estimate is now. (think of 4 billions instead of 40)

We have seen what governments dont have the speed and economical interest in space as companies do. Problem now is that those companies need papers from governments to be able to do a legal liftoff......

It will be about time that multi-millionairs like Paul Allen invest in these kinds of technology to get into space. Even if it is just to get to suborbital flights.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:15 pm
I couldn't agree more. :D . I would really like to see national rivalries kept out of space. that's why I set up the Spacefleet Association (http://www.spaceflee.org.uk), to bring international collaboration in space technology. Don't be put off by the "org.uk" it isn't a British space programme by stealth - I couldn't afford the "spacefleet.org" domain name. Someone else has it, isn't using it and want a lot for money for it!


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Post    Posted on: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:35 pm
I will check out your page later. It sounds interesting.


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