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New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method

Posted by: Bogdan - Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:01 am
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New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method 

What is your opinion about Popescu - Diaconu stabilization method?
It will work 29%  29%  [ 10 ]
There is a stabilization torque but it cannot be used for real rockets 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
It will fail since it's nothing more then the pendulum rocket fallacy 35%  35%  [ 12 ]
It will fail for other reasons 21%  21%  [ 7 ]
Don't know 12%  12%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 34

New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method 
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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:14 pm
SuperShuki wrote:
You could make the argument that the rocket in the video was only connected to the base in 2 points, and that it failed in the dimension that it wasn't connected in. So the video itself doesn't prove the point.

Oh yes, we watched the video very closely. It actually does prove something, that if the cables are not connected in that dimension, there is no stabilization. It's simple mechanics. It also proves that the system is working quite well on the plane that is defined by the exhaust vector and the 2 points, even if the connection is from the top of the rocket and not from the bottom and even if you have 2 cables go all the way down between the rocket and the lower weight instead of joining the cables together.
Use your brain guys, do you really think that we would try such a risky thing without testing it before? Of course there are project blockers that would answer "YES" but we are not that crazy. Sorry... How much it would cost to test, $200 as someone wrote before?

Just check http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/forum- ... sc&start=0

Start from the beginning. It's a long list but it's really interesting. We have different technical backgrounds, we come from different cultures, but we are all interested in spaceflight. Of course, not all of us are interested in having ARCA succeed isn't it, my Romanian conational chandrayaan?

Off topic - I belong to another generation. I've seen the space race live, I had my dreams in the past. I used to read books, you know, black letters on white paper. There was a world before Internet. A world that managed to launch rockets before computers were invented, just remember V1 or V2.

Off topic again, I really don't understand why some persons chose to use other names while trying to say something. Is this a sign of weakness? I don't know. I don't judge because I don't want to be judged.

To all those that are interested in spaceflight: we really want to do something new. Something that was not done before. A contribution, something that might be useful in the future. After all, this is what X Prize is all about, new ideas that space agencies cannot afford to test. Yes, I know, the "correct" name is Google Lunar X Prize, I've been to all the team meetings. But it will always be X Prize for me.

And this is my thread. Monroe, don't you dare deleting this thread :-) I want to understand how you guys are thinking. We know it will work but we never voted in this poll. It is about freedom of speech, sounds familiar?

Funding? Oh yeah. Try to contact a sponsor in Romania and explain that you want to launch a rocket. What do you think they would answer in the current economic crisis? Do you have any idea how much energy we spent to gain some money?

If you vote anything else then option 1, please explain. You will always be my friends, even if you vote against this system. And guys, keep your eyes on http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/forum- ... m.php?f=16 More news to come soon.

What if we are right?


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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:40 pm
If you are right, then all rocket pioneers in the last century can be considered pure idiots for not discovering such a "self-evident stabilization method" like yours.


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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:35 pm
There you are! OK still not convinced? I see, No I wouldn't delete anything if I could it's your forum. I hope I wasn't misunderstood, I like you guy's too. I voted rocket fallacy. I'm sorry I can't afford to run the test for you just be hard headed :) then and good luck! Be careful too!

Monroe

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Post Ballon Wizards   Posted on: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:39 am
Did Brian Freeny immigrate from Canada to ARCA?

He was the last great Ballon wizard.

I think the tether will just burn off in the exhaust.

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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:42 am
Sorry, I meant Feeny.

Didn't mean to embarrass the great one there.

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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:50 pm
Bogdan,

It is understandable that ARCA would not want to disclose all the details about HELEN. Could you provide details about a simple single-stage rocket that uses the same stabalization principle? This would allow others to build small model rockets that could test out the stabalization method. Or if you do not wish to provide any details, could you show us the results that you got from your own smaller scale test launches? I am assuming of course that ARCA did small-scale test launches.

Thanks,
Dave


Last edited by DaveHein on Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:51 pm
chandrayaan wrote:
If you are right, then all rocket pioneers in the last century can be considered pure idiots for not discovering such a "self-evident stabilization method" like yours.

That's not a real argument. Consider that the whole private space industry is developing rockets that are aiming to be cheaper and more reliable than "all the rocket pioneers in the last century" could have made it. In any case, judge the idea on its merits or demerits, not on the people who are proposing it. I don't even know what the idea is exactly. Do you?

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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:36 pm
ARCA has a long history of failures, unfinished, put on hold or simply abandoned projects.

HASS: An empty barrel made of fiberglass.
Image

STABILO 1B: It never flew using its own engine.
Image

STABILO 1: Just a "Pendulum Rocket Fallacy" like HELEN.
Image

Demonstrator 2B: A rocket that got to an altitude of about 1 km, much lower than its announced apogee. This is the only notable achievement of ARCA.
Image

Solar Baloon:
Image

ELE: Just an empty barrel like HAAS.
Image

Orizont: An empty barrel. It was never tested.
Image

Vecss: just another name for HELEN
Image

More information here:
http://www.arcaspace.ro/en/programs.htm


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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:14 pm
If ya'll turn out to be right. I'll eat a bug of your choice :) yum yum!
hahahhahahaha!
Hey, What if I'm right? Ya'll going to eat a bug?
hahahahahhahah!

Monroe
Team Prometheus

Oh discernment and judgment are different. Discern away :)
Wow Guy's it's called Rocket Fallacy for a reason it's a Fallacy (no good, wont work, no no, Don't do it) you know F-A-L-L-A-C-Y
Enjoy yourselves I'm moving on to find Atlantis or prophetical nirvana or something zzzzhes.

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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:14 am
chandrayaan wrote:
HASS: An empty barrel made of fiberglass.

Thanks for the pictures. It is reassuring to see that we succeeded to build such structures.

Do you mean that we should put already all the avionics, fuel, electronics, etc, etc, etc? How about launching for the Moon? Well, my Romanian friend chandrayaan, we are giving you a chance to prove that you can build something better before GLXP will be over. If I'm not mistaken, you had an attempt to build a rover but I'm not aware to have anything new from you. Did you build anything and you're keeping everything secret?

Come on, share with us your achievements.


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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:11 am
What about the change in thrust? When the rocket is angled, the thrust vectors in the direction of the angle.

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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:32 am
Apparently they have tested it. See http://www.arcaspace.ro/images/Haas_Orb ... uncher.pdf and scroll down to "ARCA’s Stabilo System launched on Mission2 from Midia Cape Air Force Base, September 2007"

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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:37 am
One reason that this system hasn't been used before may be that dragging something below a rocket is unaerodynamic. If you're launching from the ground, this is a big problem. If drag isn't such a big problem, because you're launching from high up, drag isn't so much a problem.

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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:34 am
Bogdan wrote:
chandrayaan wrote:
HASS: An empty barrel made of fiberglass.

Thanks for the pictures ... we succeeded to build such structures.
we are giving you a chance to prove that you can build something better before GLXP will be over.
Come on, share with us your achievements.


GLXP is not about making huge fiberglass statues in order to impress the public!
There is people capable of doing amazing things made of fiberglass, much more remarkable than your "space vehicles" (fiberglass statues also in you case the definition "empty barrels" would be more suitable). And, they are private companies! Personally I have neither the artistic talent nor the interest to compete with them.

Huge fiberglass statues
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sfphotocra ... assstatues
http://www.flickr.com/groups/giantfiber ... tues/pool/


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Post Re: New poll regarding ARCA stabilization method   Posted on: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:17 pm
chandrayaan wrote:
Being curious to find out the exact launch date for Helen I discovered, by chance, a foolish message, posted by ARCA a few months ago.
http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/lunar/ ... as-stabilo
They do not even know well how to interpret what they see in various pictures.


Wow, that shows how ARCA is unable to research the background behind the pictures they try to interpret.
First, the Launch Abort System in the picture has nothing at all to do with "Additionally, the weight distribution is such that the vehicle stabilizes itself without needing many horizontal thrusters." because there are a lot of thrusters and a flight computer ensures that the vehicle goes in the desired direction. Those thrusters can even be seen firing in the (rendered) picture!

And Second..... the picture taken from the original article is not the MLAS at all, it is the "conventional" launch abort tower.

The MLAS can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&hl=de&v=5xEshwVHnMY


Back to Topic:
I have already expressed my opinion about HELEN here:
viewtopic.php?p=39375#p39375

I always had high hopes for ARCA, but the more information they publish the more it turns out to be "awkward" ideas and concepts. Sometimes I get the growing feeling that their only "real" goal is to make publicity.

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