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When wouldn't you terraform?

Posted by: SuperShuki - Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:35 am
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When wouldn't you terraform? 

Under what conditions would you be against terraforming a planet?
Even if life is found, I would terraform. 30%  30%  [ 6 ]
I would be against terraforming only if life is found. 45%  45%  [ 9 ]
I would be against terraforming if the conditions for life are found. 20%  20%  [ 4 ]
I am against terraforming in any event. 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 20

When wouldn't you terraform? 
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Post When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:35 am
I am for terraforming even if life is found. The extraterrestrial life can be put in a zoo. I think that the universe is for humanity to conquer.

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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:17 am
I would rather put the effort into building huge spaceships with artificial gravity and support systems for millions of people. The environment you can create will be much more beneficial to people.

Even if you do terraform, you still have problems with gravity that's different from earth, which will have different effects on our bodies.

With terra forming, even if we get an exact replica somewhere of earth that just needs to be terraformed so that we can live on it, the process is extremely long, and we open us up to exactly the same type of natural disasters and problems we experience on earth.


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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:14 pm
Terraformation doesn't have to be all the way. And using genetically engineered organisms (extremophiles) All we would have to do is seed the planet, and let her rip. I think that extremophiles would grow real fast without any competition . . . Biological organisms multiply pretty rapidly without any competition or predators . . .

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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:16 pm
In any case, the question is if you would not terraform on principle, not the practicality of terraforming.

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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:03 pm
If there is no life... Sure...
If there is latent life, we must search how to bring this life to full potential, flourish on all the planet, and integrate with Earth life (including humans) without mutual destruction.
if there was a world full of life (for example, if in Europa was an ocean plenty of macroscopic life) only adapt us to life in that enviroment. Only colonization, not terraformation to preserve the life and learn all about this kind of new discovered life.
In conclusion, we must preserve extraterrestrial life in the same way we should preserve Earth life. We try to avoid extinction by human interference, even extinction in any case when possible and try to learn all we could about how evolution has solve problems to generate new ideas.

The space is very big. There is no need to destroy any life and life is one of the most amazing things we could found and learn about it.


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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:21 am
SuperShuki wrote:
I am for terraforming even if life is found. The extraterrestrial life can be put in a zoo. I think that the universe is for humanity to conquer.


IF there is life, we will disturb it, and it will disturb us. IF there was life on mars, and transforming wakes it up, no telling how it will interact with your terraforming goal.

We are currently in the process of Terraforming Earth into something closer to Venus. Until we can re"terraform" Earth, talk of terraforming Mars, with no magnetic field, little atmosphere, little solar radiation, and large land masses that would protrude through any atmosphere you build. It's just silly.


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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:19 am
We are not Aphroforming Terra. Ireally don't know where people get that idea from. Terra has been 8 degrees warmer in the past and managed to survive, it's doubtful humans could do any worse unless it's deliberate.

As for the question, it depends on what the life is like. If it's merely a few surviving bacteria, we can keep them in Labs - go ahead and Terraform. If it's multicelluer, Terraform to the extent that would help the natives (i.e. Terraform Europa if it helps the Europans develop).


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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:32 pm
Terraformer wrote:
We are not Aphroforming Terra. Ireally don't know where people get that idea from. Terra has been 8 degrees warmer in the past and managed to survive, it's doubtful humans could do any worse unless it's deliberate.

As for the question, it depends on what the life is like. If it's merely a few surviving bacteria, we can keep them in Labs - go ahead and Terraform. If it's multicelluer, Terraform to the extent that would help the natives (i.e. Terraform Europa if it helps the Europans develop).


Have you seen the historic CO2 densities as shown by ice core drilling? Watch the James Balog video over at TED?

http://www.ted.com/talks/james_balog_ti ... _loss.html

Venus nor Mars are possible for the world long term, but we have hand world seasons that have looked like both our planetary sisters.


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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:38 pm
Terraformer wrote:
We are not Aphroforming Terra. Ireally don't know where people get that idea from. Terra has been 8 degrees warmer in the past and managed to survive, it's doubtful humans could do any worse unless it's deliberate.


Oh, the planet will still be there, don't worry. But global warming 55 million years ago occurred over a period of hundreds of thousands of years, and we're doing it in a few centuries. That gives the biosphere quite a bit less time to adapt. I wouldn't be so confident...

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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:38 pm
If you guys want to start a fight about global warming, go ahead, but start a new thread. I don't want the admins closing down this thread because people are fighting about global warming.

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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:11 pm
Someone from Israel should appreciate the irony of advocating colonization regardless...

Even if there is so much as a microbe (to quote an old StarTrek movie), I think we have to be hands off. Because even if its just slime today, in a billion years when humans are gone and forgotten, who knows what will arise. Even the act of landing on a planet and contaminating it with our chemicals and biological material might affect the course of a planet's biological evolution and is to be avoided. If nothing else from a scientific perspective of not biasing an experiment/observation.

I guess if a planet never evolved life for whatever reason it would be fair game I guess. They will probably be like Mars or Venus and need a little "tweaking", but if they never did and never will, that seems ethical to me.


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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:22 am
JamesG wrote:
Someone from Israel should appreciate the irony of advocating colonization regardless...

What do you mean by that exactly?
Everything has a place and a purpose. The Jews' place is to be in the Land of Israel (all of it, including Trans-Jordan) and to bring morality to the world. Do you have a problem with that?
Maybe an admin would like to step in here, before I get myself banned again . . . :roll:

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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:46 am
JamesG wrote:
Someone from Israel should appreciate the irony of advocating colonization regardless...

Even if there is so much as a microbe (to quote an old StarTrek movie), I think we have to be hands off. Because even if its just slime today, in a billion years when humans are gone and forgotten, who knows what will arise. Even the act of landing on a planet and contaminating it with our chemicals and biological material might affect the course of a planet's biological evolution and is to be avoided. If nothing else from a scientific perspective of not biasing an experiment/observation.

I guess if a planet never evolved life for whatever reason it would be fair game I guess. They will probably be like Mars or Venus and need a little "tweaking", but if they never did and never will, that seems ethical to me.


What if we reproduced the enviroment in a different place, and relocated the organism, so that scientists could study it and humans could live in the previous environment?

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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:48 am
SuperShuki wrote:
JamesG wrote:
Someone from Israel should appreciate the irony of advocating colonization regardless...

What do you mean by that exactly?
Everything has a place and a purpose. The Jews' place is to be in the Land of Israel (all of it, including Trans-Jordan) and to bring morality to the world. Do you have a problem with that?
Maybe an admin would like to step in here, before I get myself banned again . . . :roll:


Apparently you know where the line is so don't cross it and you will be fine :wink:

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Post Re: When wouldn't you terraform?   Posted on: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:01 am
JamesG wrote:

Even if there is so much as a microbe (to quote an old StarTrek movie), I think we have to be hands off..

Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at - Star Trek and the Prime Directive (which forbade the brave adventurers from influencing in any way alien beings who weren't at a certain stage of development).
I don't know what the purpose of the Prime Directive was. To me, the whole world was made for man. If leaving microbes alone would benefit man more, than I would be for it. But if it doesn't benefit humanity, or is even detrimental to humanity, by taking away a habitable place for colonization, why should we care? And how would leaving microbes alone benefit humanity anyway?

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