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Air breathing deceleration thrusters

Posted by: Electrolyte - Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:07 am
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Air breathing deceleration thrusters 
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Post Air breathing deceleration thrusters   Posted on: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:07 am
I was wondering on the possibility of putting all that atmosphere to good use, if a ship was doing re-entry. So like a hypothetical apparatus using the forced air of re-entry to go down some intake pipes to fire thrusters to help slow the ship down.
I guess that the pipes taking in the air and then combusting it would sort of have to bend like a j at the end to make the thrusts against gravity, and gonna guess that if there's a flaw with that idea that it's right there, but would that be a problem, and would it be a good idea?


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Post    Posted on: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:44 am
Hello, Electrolyte,

I'm playing with that idea too. The extremly fast velocity of the air relative to the spacecraft might provide problems - pressure, temperature and the fact that plasma is ionized.

But if it works and is realistic it is interesteing wether it is possible and useful to have a J that outgoing hole is mor narrow than the ingoing hole - like the engines of a normal plane.

What about thos? What are the thoughts of the engineers here?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


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Post    Posted on: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:58 pm
Yeah, I'm totally curious as to whether some kind of variation of that basic idea is possible, it would be awesome if it were just that easy wouldn't it?

What kinda pressure do you think would end up being inside there?


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Post    Posted on: Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:26 am
The air is floating by several MACH relatively to the spacecraft at reentry.

As I know there hasn't been a spacecraft letting float that air into its inner side yet. It always has been floating outside and the direction of floating hasn't been controlled or changed.

The forces at reentry cause the air to be a plasma and the outer side of the spaceship to get hot until it's glowing. This would happen in the "J" too I think - but the "J" tries to control the direction of the floating air, it is acting like an obstacle that outside never existed in the past. Air making the outer side of the craft glow might destroy nearly each obstacle - the "J" perhaps doesn't work if no material will be found strong enough not to be broken by the air floating by several MACH.

I want to see the "J" working but how to handle these forces (= causing pressure)?

Perhaps a magnetic field caused by ions can be created as in the design of magnetic fields for making use of the thrust of the solar wind. But how create a sufficient braking field without too much additional weight?

In my own playing with air breathing I'm asking about a turbine as in the engines of planes. Perhaps a plane-like engine will help to make use of the fast air or the air behind the spacecraft.

An insufficient answer to you, Electrolyte - I'm sorry, iT#s due to not being an engineer etc..

Is there any iuseful thought in this?



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Post    Posted on: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:43 pm
The article "British Space Plane Concept Gets Boost" ( www.space.com/businesstechnology/090311 ... plane.html ) seems to be reporting about an air breathing rocket engine.

Could the air breathing mode be applied at reentry as well?

Quote:
Unlike most rocket engines, the Skylon's SABRE engine would use hydrogen as its fuel rather than as a coolant, and instead would use liquid oxygen for cooling.

That means the air-breathing mode would rely on a revolutionary heat exchanger pre-cooler, which cools the air that gets compressed and fed to the rocket engine along with hydrogen fuel




What about it?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


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Post    Posted on: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:44 am
I belive the J would cause the craft to flip end over end! it would have to look like two snow-cones point to point with a parabolic reflector on the rear end. Wait never mind you could use 4 J's.

Monroe

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Post    Posted on: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:05 pm
wouldn't you have to reverse the airflow for this to be effective? (there's a reason why planes are not going backwards)


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