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Venus-fit technology idea

Posted by: Ekkehard Augustin - Wed May 18, 2005 10:44 am
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Venus-fit technology idea 
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Post    Posted on: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:28 pm
Venus sounds like a nice place at 50km up in the air, I wonder what the screening to solar radiation is like that far up and close to the sun?

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Post    Posted on: Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:56 am
Well, the author says,
Quote:
The thick atmosphere provides about one kilogram per square centimeter of mass shielding from galactic cosmic
radiation and from solar particle event radiation, eliminating a key difficulty in many other proposed space
settlement locations.


But I must admit, I'm not exactly sure how good 1 kg per cm^2 of mass shielding is. However, he certainly seems to think it is good enough.

The biggest question for me is deployment. I'm sure it can be done, but the details really need to be looked at. I've been running the numbers, and it seems to me that with 0.5 kg per m^3 of buoyancy, the aerostat will need to be quite voluminous indeed, in order to lift anything worthwhile. That's not really such a problem, in fact it helps if the aerostat is of low enough density to enter the atmosphere by itself.

The ascent vehicle also adds a great deal of mass, obviously. I can't really think of an obviously good way of deploying this, that may be the most difficult thing. (Of course, at this point many of you may be thinking 'ATO!' but of course you can't really plan a mission around a vehicle that hasn't flown yet. I would however, love to hear what JPowell thinks about this situation.) 8)

I guess my main point is that this mission will need to be quite massive in order to work at all. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!) :P


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Post    Posted on: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:43 am
Hello, Marshall,

as far as I remember, jpowell has said in the General JP Aerospace Forum that he and JP Aerospace are thinking of going to Mars and Venus by the ATO but don't work that out now since they want to get ready the Ascender, the DSS and the ATO and the system made of them - the concept and architecture - first.

But Venus is in his and their mind(s) anyhow.



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Post    Posted on: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:13 am
Would the sunshade of MESSENGER or the heat shielding tiles of the Space Shuttle work on Venus to keep the heat away from the inner of space vehicles or rovers landing there? The temperature of Venus seems to be within the limits of those two technologies but would they survive those temperatures in the lng run?

What about additionally two hulls between which there is a vacuum?



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Post    Posted on: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:21 am
No. A sunshade is just that, a sunshade. And the shuttle heatshield tiles are good only for short times, and certainly not in an atmosphere that is highly caustic in nature. See, Venus is essentially the worst possible environment: it has insane pressures, insane temperatures, and (just to round everything out), the atmosphere also includes large amounts of sulfuric acid. So yeah. Most people have just given up on Venus for the time being, because it's just such a miserable environment to deal with, and Mars is a lot easier.

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Post    Posted on: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:33 am
Regarding the acidic atmosphere the problem wuldn't be that large in case of a landing - the acids are to be found in the cooler and higher regions only while below them there is the high pressore carbondioxide only.

I am wondering if the tiles might be protected against acids and the like and simply keep away the heat from the inner of a vehicle. This might enable a cooling system to work.

The tiles would be used only as an obstacle for the heat to dissipate into the inner of the vehicle.

I am not focusing on a manned landing at present - the initial thread was about a rover. I would consider it to be a success already if the time a probe survives would be significantly longer than that of past venusian probes.



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Post    Posted on: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:59 pm
As an article I posted about in the Latest News section (title "ARCHIMEDES") reported a balloon would reach the venusian surface in less than an earthian day. It simply would be pressed together.

So obviously SO2 and venusian acids wouldn't do any harm to the hull of the balloon.

This is sounding as if new solutions are hidden in it.

What about it?



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Post    Posted on: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:19 am
According to a recent article uner www.wissenschaft.de physicists at the University of Toronto have manged to heat thin films ot layers of Gold to temperaturs where they should have turned into a plasma but have been kept solid and turned even harder instead of melted.

This has been achieved by heating the Gold at a rate of 10^15 degrees C per second via alaser according to the article.

So might this be a basis for a Venus-fit technology?

The article refers to co-author Dwayne Miller and Science, Online-Prepublishing, DOI: 10.1126/science.1162697 ( http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1162697 ).



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Post    Posted on: Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:18 pm
For an unmanned mission we'd probably use Hydrogen in the balloon, although Nitrogen could be extracted from the Atmosphere. For an Ascent vehicle (and all ascent vehicles) I'd use Rockoons, as, as John Powell says, a DSS on Venus could carry the same weight and be much smaller. Most/all N-prize plans seem to use Rockoons, so this could be an area where they could help. They should be powered by something like LOX/Ethene, as Hydrogen is the one resource that is difficult to come by.


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