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Composites

Posted by: n54 - Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:09 am
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Composites 
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Space Walker
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Post Composites   Posted on: Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:09 am
scaled and ARCA are both teams who do interesting stuff with composites, i'm wondering if i might have missed any other teams who use composites extensivly or are these two the only ones?


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Post    Posted on: Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:58 pm
those are the only 2 i've heard about.

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Space Walker
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Post    Posted on: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:01 am
On the X-Prize website article there is a link to a company that seems to be designing a bipropellant engine with fiber composite cooling sleeve: http://www.rlaerospace.com/


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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:38 pm
Since this is a thread on technology and composites, I wanted to call attention to the issue of technical advantages/disavantages of composites versus metal.

In THE ROCKET COMPANY the authors (rocket professionals) find many problems with composite structures. They use as an example Rutan's STARSHIP design. They say that on big structures, composites loose weight savings and become to complex to manufacture. It seems to make sence. The Starship was an unsuccessfull comercial venture. The very similar Piaggio is a hot selling plane that was modernised to REMOVE the composites changing them for metal. Any comments.

This is the relevant link
http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/archiv ... page1.html


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Space Walker
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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:58 pm
why do they use the example of starship (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/GENERAL_AVIATION/beech/GA9G5.htm) instead of using the long-ez/varieze as an example? they sold thousands of those...

edit: sorry i see why but it's a bit of an unfair/tenuous comparison really:
Quote:
Following a rigorous flight test program to validate the most ambitious general aviation development project in history, and after numerous delays, the Beech Starship received formal FAA certification on June 14, 1988. Unfortunately, the conservative certification requirements forced a reduction of its seating capacity from eight to six passengers while its weight increased by more than a ton, diminishing the Starship's performance and economic viability.

quote taken from: http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/GENERAL_AVIATION/beech/GA9.htm
end edit

the above link was taken from this one: http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/GENERAL_AVIATION/rutan/GA15.htm

imo burtan's achievements proves them wrong on composites itself, that being said; making something out of composites doesn't necessarily make it a market hit (or the best product)


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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:14 pm
Pretty interesting. With a more flexible certification requierement you could update the Starship for 8 people and loose some weight and make a comercially viable design.

Also Scaled did a lot of work on the Rotary Rocket and it was a big ship.

I suppose if Rutan was more into mass market planes than into experimental designs we would see more big composite structures.

I'm interested in this topic because I studied Military Science and my Military Technology teacher said he did not expect big future advances in metallurgy for material science. He only expected them in composites. I did not know what to respond then, save for "titanium is cool".


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Post Composites   Posted on: Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:20 pm
There already ARE large composite structures being built. They're called boats.

Articles of the Month - Cepheus and Manque... Fully enclosed pilot pod Leading Edges: carbon fiber/PVC foam sandwich Main Spar: carbon fiber/PVC foam/plywood Fuselage Pod Skins: fiberglass/PVC foam Seat ...
www.sailplanehomebuilders.com/ articleofmonth12-2001.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages


Bic Sport Online : Technology... Epoxy gel coat; 0.6mm Wood reinforcement; 160g carbon fiber layer; 3mm PVC foam; 60g fiberglass layer; Polystyrene; Epoxy gel coat; 200g fiberglass layer. ...
www.bicsport.com/ techno/index.php?sportid=1&lang=us - 21k - Cached - Similar pages


Pedigree Cats Catamarans - power catamaran builder, sail catamaran ...... especially in conjunction with E-glass, Kevlar and Carbon Fiber and structural ... This foam is a resilient, thermoformable linear linked, PVC foam core material ...
www.pedigreecats.com/ - 20k - Cached - Similar pages


Shuttleworth AeroRig 52 Construction Pictures... attachment. The deck ribs are installed, battened and PVC foam installed. ... side. A solid wood base and extra carbon fiber are added. ...
www.pedigreecats.com/js/a1/ - 12k - Cached - Similar pages


Trade Name Index (A - B) - Composite Materials... 46K tow Also A430-46K, A-430 Aldila A430/949 Carbon fiber prepreg made ... Aramid fabric for prepregs The Advanced Composites Group AIREX R63 PVC foam for sandwich ...
composite.about.com/library/tn/bltna.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages


Trade Name Index ( F - H) - Composite Materials... F-14, TP-41F United Resin Corporation HEREX C70 Modified PVC foam for sandwich ... HPL High pressure laminates EURO-COMPOSITES HR40 Pan carbon fiber Grafil HS40 ...
composite.about.com/library/tn/bltnf.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages


Interior Design - Splashing out... Speed issues made lightnesss of utmost importance, hence the hull constructed from 10 carbon-fiber layers sandwiching PVC foam. ...
www.interiordesign.net/id_article/CA405211/id?stt=001 - Similar pages


Boat Design Forums - which core material ?... is good as core sandwich: nomex, end grain balsa, divinycell, pvc foam, etc ... your boat will be named "Regardless of Cost" it's sure that carbon fiber/Nomex/epox ...
boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3689 - 51k - Cached - Similar pages


Boat Design Forums - Boatbuilding... How do I build a mast out of Carbon Fiber or glass; Teak deck laid ... Welders; electrical; Gluing pvc foam core; Crowther catamaran deckhouse changes; looking for plans ...
boatdesign.net/forums/archive/index.php/f-5 - 20k - Cached - Similar pages
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[PDF] F-33 Spec. listFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... Hulls: PVC foam core sandwich construction used throughout, including all interior parts, with hand laid double bias or bi-axial glass fabrics. Carbon fiber or ...
www.f-boat.com/pdf/F-33%20Spec.%20list.pdf - Similar pages


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Post    Posted on: Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:56 pm
Greenmonster's post reminded me of the use composites have in Mine Countermeasure Vessels, warships used to destroy sea mines. Since the cmposite is not metallic it's safe against magnetic mines. Also has to be strong to resist shockwaves in the water. Should have remembered that.


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