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The Ares-1 can't fly

Posted by: gaetanomarano - Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:43 pm
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The Ares-1 can't fly 
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Post    Posted on: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:11 am
idiom wrote:
Ares 1 not making it off the pad would not be the end of the world, just the end of a lot of cushy careers.


and ten years + $7 billion lost...

from my latest "Ares-1 can't fly" article's update:

Just add that, the current design's Orion is (at least) 1.5 mT "overweighted" and that also the (latest designed) Orion's 6.35 mT tower-LAS is 2.3 mT heavier than the 4 mT tower-LAS of the early CLV designs, then, the Ares-1 2nd stage engine should be (at least) 15% MORE powerful than an SSME rather than 43% LESS powerful.

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Post    Posted on: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:22 pm
I assume by mT you mean tonnes, for which the symbol is t.


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Post    Posted on: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:54 pm
Minthos wrote:
I assume by mT you mean tonnes, for which the symbol is t.


you're right, but "mT" (as 1000 kg. NOT 2000 lbs.) is also used by NASA in all documents and specs

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Post    Posted on: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:37 pm
.

just added FOUR new UPDATES to my "Ares-1 can't fly" article:

http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts/012arescantfly.html

- latest news about a possible Ares-1 (dangerous) oscillation problem and the first manned Orion launch slip to June 2016

- old (but largely unknow) NASA press release about a possible in-flight stability problem (that must be solved)

- the lack of "safe lift-off abort mode" for (both) the 4-segments and the 5-segments SRB Ares-1 1st stage

- read why ALSO the Ares-5 can't fly (especially with the heavier 5-segments SRBs) nor leave the launch pad

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Post    Posted on: Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:03 am
While we are here, does anyone know how the roll control will function? Is it managed by the upperstage thrusters?

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Post    Posted on: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:25 am
idiom wrote:
While we are here, does anyone know how the roll control will function? Is it managed by the upperstage thrusters?


NASA issued a contract to Aerojet in May to develop a 1st-stage roll control system, but I don't know any details of how it will work.


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Post    Posted on: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:44 am
idiom wrote:
While we are here, does anyone know how the roll control will function? Is it managed by the upperstage thrusters?


all (custom made) attitude controls seem will be in the top side of the 2nd stage, while, only the Ares 1-X test rocket, will use the Atlas-V-derived attitude controls

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Post    Posted on: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:46 am
.

I've UPDATED my "Ares-1 can't fly" article...

http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts/012arescantfly.html

...with an interesting thing found on the web:

Two years ago, when I've FIRST remarked on a Space forum the problem of the lack of a "safe lift-off abort mode" in the upcoming Ares-1, I was (literally) submerged by lots of critics and insults, but, now, surfing the web, I've found and SAVED (a "disliked" web page can disappear overnight...) a very interesting June 12, 1997 Boeing's News Release titled "Boeing To Study Liquid Fly Back Shuttle Boosters For NASA"...

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/199 ... 70612.html

...where the Boeing LFBB Program Director Ira Victer said that... "LFBB will use liquid propellants and will be fully throttleable and capable of safe shutdown. SRBs, which use a solid propellant, cannot be turned off once ignited... "The result is a booster system [the LFBB] more tolerant of engine failure and less likely to require mission aborts," Victer said. "In addition, hazardous booster operations in NASA Kennedy Space Center (KSC) Vehicle Assembly Building are eliminated, since LFBB fueling operations would occur on the launch pad, much the way the Shuttle's external tank is loaded today".

Then, in this ten-years-old document, BOEING (clearly) seems agree with me... :)

However, I'm not against the SRBs used as 1st stage of a rocket for manned launches... my only concern is that, this solution, needs many safety, structure and acceleration tests made NOW (not in 2009+) then, BEFORE any "final decision" about the Ares-1.

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Post    Posted on: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:53 am
Of course LFBBs are better for aborts, in this context with the SHUTTLE! This has to do NOTHING with Ares. The Shuttle could do an abort during SRB burn phase but it is not sure if the Shuttle would survice this structurally so NASA didn't chose this option as a normal procedure.

Nonetheless during the Challenger launch review it was considered a possibility that could have been used IF the launch team would have recognized the deviation from standard pressure in the SRBs at liftoff.

Again, LFBBs have to do nothing with Ares!

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Post    Posted on: Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:05 am
Klaus Schmidt wrote:
This has to do NOTHING with Ares.


some experts say that the (recent known) Ares-1 SRB vibrations' problem comes from the lack of a central liquid tank (like the Shuttle ET) that could mitigate them

Quote:
The Shuttle could do an abort during SRB burn phase


that, since the Shuttle has three SSMEs and its own propellents' tank... while the Ares-1 will have not them

Quote:
Again, LFBBs have to do nothing with Ares!


the Boeing's study (simply) shows us that, while a liquid rocket is safe for manned launches, it also adds some further safety if an on-pad abort must occur

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Post    Posted on: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:32 am
.

For those who are still skeptic about what I've said in my "Ares-1 cant fly" article, in the latest article's update I explain again (step by step) the same concepts but from a different, historical/technical/evolutionary, point of view:

http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts/012arescantfly.html

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