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Will the X-Cup be a commercial success?

Posted by: Spacerat - Sat Jul 26, 2003 3:37 am
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Will the X-Cup be a commercial success? 
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Space Walker
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Post    Posted on: Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:41 pm
F* off... We don't wana drive, we wana fly..... :roll:


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Post    Posted on: Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:13 pm
NEWSFLASH, Voyager. Outside of Rutan nobody IS flying.

However, A BUNCH of teams have fired rocket motors.


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Post    Posted on: Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:51 pm
thought this was a message board for x-prize not for some flat earth society racing

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Post It ain't, genius.   Posted on: Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:00 pm
terryk wrote:
thought this was a message board for x-prize not for some flat earth society racing


Although a lot of X-Prize teams have fired rocket motors, a good question would be how many of them could build even a 300 mph rocket car WITHOUT getting someone killed in the process.

Rocket cars AREN'T that simple, Sherlock.


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Post A Big P.S.   Posted on: Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:08 pm
You would do well -- terryk -- to remember X-Prize entries are only just now approaching the level of propulsion system sophistication reached in The Blue Flame and the Budweiser rocket car 30 years ago.


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Post Re: It ain't, genius.   Posted on: Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:09 pm
Franklin Ratliff wrote:
terryk wrote:
thought this was a message board for x-prize not for some flat earth society racing


Although a lot of X-Prize teams have fired rocket motors, a good question would be how many of them could build even a 300 mph rocket car WITHOUT getting someone killed in the process.

Rocket cars AREN'T that simple, Sherlock.


A very good question, but in a wrong topic..
Yes the xprize will be a commercial succes (my opinion).. No rocket cars won't be a commercial succes (my opinion) racing already exist... it's something diffrent.. same technology.. but in that case... let's talk about the materials used on SS1 used on boats ;). let's get to sailing.. soon... we'll find a link to biology and then we'll all go diving.. instead of going into space ;)

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Post    Posted on: Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:45 pm
What I was intending was that the X Prize and subsequent X cup encompass much more then simpel rockets, in addition you are dealing with Flight navigation along all 3 axis, Reentry, Recovery, Flight Stability, Communication, O2 supply and CO2 scrubbing, control in a weightless enviroment, etc
for a Rocket car, as far as I understand, all you have is an engine, with a limited fuel supply, a parachute, to slow down the vehicle once the fuel is exhauseted, a roll cage, tires and a frame. they do not steer, but go down a straight path.
the Xprize and xcup will have many ramifications including in manufaturing, transportation, exploration, and science. I know sevral people that would pay more to fly to australia in a few hours then spend over a day in the air for a flight. the technologies for this is being created and improved by the xprize contenstants.
in the over 25 years of rocket car racing, I have not seen any implementation of rocket technology to the auto industry, while the x prize implementation will be looked at by the aerospace industry ofr implementation.
your stance that the xprize and xcup should be abandoned sound akin to the stances of the Flat earth society, and the earth first society that state we should not go into space but look here on earth and everything is rosy

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Post Rocket car chassis MUCH more affordable than airframes   Posted on: Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:00 pm
"for a Rocket car, as far as I understand, all you have is an engine, with a limited fuel supply, a parachute, to slow down the vehicle once the fuel is exhauseted, a roll cage, tires and a frame. they do not steer, but go down a straight path."

"...all you have is an engine, with a limited fuel supply, a parachute, to slow down the vehicle once the fuel is exhauseted"? That same description applies to a lot of X-Prize vehicles.

"...they do not steer, but go down a straight path"? They don't go in a straight path on their own. They need to be steered. They're not landbound missiles.

In fact, depending on speed rocket cars can be as demanding as X-Prize vehicles. There are no tires rated for 400+ mph speeds commercially available, so if a car is going to run much over 300 mph tireless wheels have to be designed and custom built. There are no standard racing drag chutes rated for speeds much over 300 mph, so unless a car is restricted to those speeds a custom drag chute system rated for speeds over 400 mph has to be created from scratch. Then, of course, if you want to go supersonic with one the level of engineering required goes through the roof.


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Post Re: Making X Prize Cup exciting (period)   Posted on: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:54 am
Franklin Ratliff wrote:
Want to make the X Prize Cup a COMMERCIAL success? Forget the entire launch vehicle, make propulsion system development the focus of the event, and put the rocket motors in CARS.


Hey, guess what? They've already done it. Guess what else? It doesn't work.

The salt flats out in White Sands, Nevada host fairly regular competitions, including supersonic cars. But they're not a commercial success, and nobody wants to watch them.

Here's why, and here's why NASCAR (as much as I hate it) limits the speed of their cars to 200mph: because anything much over that is too hard to see clearly. You simply can't read the ads on the sides of the cars. Nobody wants to watch them because it's moving too fast, you can't get sponsorship because nobody wants to watch it. No joy, friend.

Air races, on the other hand, do better because they can be held almost anywhere, and are more readily (and expertly) televised, and are actually easier to see because you don't have to worry much about the horizon.

And no offense, but how (besides making really fast cars that you can't drive outside of specialized areas and rocket engines) is a regular rocket car competition going to advance space development?

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Post    Posted on: Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:10 am
spacecowboy wrote:
Air races, on the other hand, do better because they can be held almost anywhere, and are more readily (and expertly) televised, and are actually easier to see because you don't have to worry much about the horizon.


Are you talking about racing planes? I've never seen anything like this and would be really interested to. Maybe I'm being completely ignorant, or maybe we're deprived down here below the equator.


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Post    Posted on: Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:21 am
Pete wrote:
Are you talking about racing planes? I've never seen anything like this and would be really interested to. Maybe I'm being completely ignorant, or maybe we're deprived down here below the equator.


They were really really big up until the '50s, and then they kinda dropped off. However, there's still a few around here and there, mostly in Oshkosh for the EAA AirVenture fly-in. They're really rare, but from what I understand they're very cool to watch.

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Post    Posted on: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:17 pm
I've seen the racing planes and they kick ass. Its kind of like the Scnieder cup but over land, flying around a mile oval marked out by pylons. They like to use the old P-51 Mustangs but some of the teams are now getting up to 5000hp out of the Merlin engine! :shock: (In WW2 this was around 1100hp. tops)

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Post Re: Making X Prize Cup exciting (period)   Posted on: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:41 pm
spacecowboy wrote:
Franklin Ratliff wrote:
Want to make the X Prize Cup a COMMERCIAL success? Forget the entire launch vehicle, make propulsion system development the focus of the event, and put the rocket motors in CARS.


Hey, guess what? They've already done it. Guess what else? It doesn't work.

The salt flats out in White Sands, Nevada host fairly regular competitions, including supersonic cars. But they're not a commercial success, and nobody wants to watch them.

Here's why, and here's why NASCAR (as much as I hate it) limits the speed of their cars to 200mph: because anything much over that is too hard to see clearly. You simply can't read the ads on the sides of the cars. Nobody wants to watch them because it's moving too fast, you can't get sponsorship because nobody wants to watch it. No joy, friend.

Air races, on the other hand, do better because they can be held almost anywhere, and are more readily (and expertly) televised, and are actually easier to see because you don't have to worry much about the horizon.

And no offense, but how (besides making really fast cars that you can't drive outside of specialized areas and rocket engines) is a regular rocket car competition going to advance space development?


NASCAR doesn't limit speeds to 200 mph "because they're hard to see." NASCAR limits speeds to no more than 200 mph because back in 1987 Bobby Allison's car while traveling in excess of 200 mph became airborne and almost killed hundreds of spectators.

The Bonneville salt flats are in Utah, not New Mexico. However, there are dry lakes in New Mexico, Nevada and Arizona which are suitable for high speed cars.

"How is a regular rocket car competition going to advance space development"? Because rocket cars have the same requirements for throttleability, high thrust, maintainability and reliability as any other reuseable rocket vehicle.


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Post Air Races   Posted on: Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:18 pm
Oshkosh is an air show not an air race. It's the annual EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) fly-in.

The big annual air races are in Reno, Nevada. The Unlimiteds fly on a nine mile course.


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Post    Posted on: Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:20 pm
next person who posts on rocket cars is going to get a pm message from me or sigurd telling them to shut the [censored] up. Franklin Ratliff, sigurd asked you to stop so either a) do it, or b) have us email the admins, you are clearly pissing everyone on the boards off with your obsession, which is clearly wrong given that it's been tried and it failed. this is an xprize board, if you want to have a rocket cars thread then put it in the tech forum and keep it away from x-prize. this is really getting annoying so stop or face the consequences.

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