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Cloud 9 Atmospheric Space-Port

Posted by: RBFFFF - Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:46 am
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Cloud 9 Atmospheric Space-Port 
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Post Cloud 9 Atmospheric Space-Port   Posted on: Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:46 am
I'm new to the community and thought I'd get the ball rolling on a little Known Buckminster fuller concept called Coud Nine.

The sructural weight of a 1/2 mile sphere's outer frame and canvas skin would be one-thousandth of the weight of the air inside. The Inside air would only require a temperature increase of one degree, caused by solar radiation and the thermal energy of the thousands of people he invisioned occupying the future city. The Sphere would be anchored to mountaintops and enable humans to "converge and deploy around Earth without it's depletion"

I think this concept could be used to create an atmospheric Rocket pad to reduce the cost of Orbital Launch pad. Because It won't have to hold the weight of a city, A smaller sphere could do the job.(I haven't crunched the numbers) An Internal cylander Spanning the length of the sphere could house a rocket and the Attachement equipment.

If Anyone Uses this Idea for there X-prize Idea, Kick me down 5% of the winnings, and I wont prosecute.

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Last edited by RBFFFF on Sat Mar 13, 2004 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Cloud 9 Atmospheric Space-Port   Posted on: Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:17 am
RBFFFF wrote:
<snippet>


Well, it's about time somebody around here brought that up! The concept of a floating city is an old one, and undoubtedly one of the most popular and romantic. However, nobody seems willing to foot the bill for it. Also problematic are the legalities: whose flag does it fly under, and how do you control the airspace that it goes into? Another concern: if it is used as a rocket pad, where do you launch the rockets from? You have to launch them from the outside, as any puncture will cause explosive decompression. But then you have the structural problems of housing them, solidly connecting them to the superstructure, launching them without shredding your floating city, landing them, and getting the people and cargo to and from the rockets. The same problems apply to aircraft.

Alright, boys and girls, have at it. Good hunting!

By the way, RBFFFF, welcome to the boards! Excellent job on your first post.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:02 pm
It's not cloud cities, but there are two steps in that direction that are happening right now. The first a man made island where the wealthy residents enjoy everything a normal city has, but it's been placed in a nice place. The second is the better publisised Freedom Ship, which is the same, but it moves around between the Med and Caribbean. Nice. I dunno though, I recon the next stage would be orbital rather than higher atmosphere.

If the technology allowed it, you could anchor a cloud city to a space elevator. The elevator would then simply be a vertical road way, supplying the orbital facilities as well as the cloud city. Hell, who says the cable from the elevator has to touch the ground? Couldn't it terminate at a cloud city?

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Post    Posted on: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:08 pm
Sean Girling wrote:
If the technology allowed it, you could anchor a cloud city to a space elevator. The elevator would then simply be a vertical road way, supplying the orbital facilities as well as the cloud city. Hell, who says the cable from the elevator has to touch the ground? Couldn't it terminate at a cloud city?


Probably not. Think about it: you have a city walled by canvas and clear plastic. Some genius decides that they don't like you and gives the orbital end of your elevator a gentle nudge, tugging your floating city out into orbit along with it. 10k+ people are now breathing hard vacuum.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:39 pm
Ah, Space cowboy, you're always thinking defensively. But yes, that might indeed be a problem. It'd make for an amusing discovery by some aliens though. Ha!

Anyone read Ring World? Or I suppose more recently played Halo? A single wide spinning band with an atmosphere caught on the inside. Anyone any idea how feasable this really is? I was imagining a smaller version that was more than just a habitat, but actually went as far as being a starship. I mean, it's going to take so many years to travel to the nearest stars, never mind to those that have Terraformable planets.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:38 pm
I was finishing up a long winded reply to your inquiries when I closed the wrong window on accident. My biology class is about to start so I'll skip the controlled environment rant, and dive right back into cloud 9. If conventional rocketry is found infeasable, (the cheapest option should become the most researched) Today's many Ramjet flavors, hybridized with upper-atmosphere rockets, could fit the bill. They could be launched from Lateral bays or vertical openings. If landing speed becomes an Issue, Larger Spheres could have a helical wind-down tunnel that a pilot could use to maximize the length of decelleration. Plus flying through a spiraling tube would kick-ass.

The Pressurization isn't a huge problem with the Cloud 9 sphere, because it relies on the structure itself, rather than the pressure of the enclosed gasses. an opening at the top would actually draw hot air in due to the rising hotair currents that occur on the external skin.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:47 pm
Sean Girling wrote:
Ah, Space cowboy, you're always thinking defensively. But yes, that might indeed be a problem. It'd make for an amusing discovery by some aliens though. Ha!

Anyone read Ring World? Or I suppose more recently played Halo? A single wide spinning band with an atmosphere caught on the inside. Anyone any idea how feasable this really is? I was imagining a smaller version that was more than just a habitat, but actually went as far as being a starship. I mean, it's going to take so many years to travel to the nearest stars, never mind to those that have Terraformable planets.


The examples I give are simply the most graphic. A minor miscalculation in the orbital velocity for your orbit-side station would do much the same thing.

And, actually, such a starship was another of Larry Niven's ideas. And a ringworld is simple to build, it's just that you require so much materials that it's highly impractical.

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Post    Posted on: Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:47 am
About the ring concept. What about a Rotating conical shape with a rounded geodesic dome at the base facing the sun? This would allow maximum solar radiation absorption, and terraced rings would use gyrotropic force like the massive ring concept, but with a more cost effective compact unit.

The different rings would have different gravitational forces. You can run some ring laps in different gravity levels. Play basketball in half earth's gravity. Use prosthetic wings and fly like in the space towers of Arthur C. Clark's 3001.

Speaking of enclosed environments, Buckminster Fuller began conceptualizing the geodesic Garden-of-Eden dome in 1949. Materials science didn't catch up to his Ideas until 1977.

The Problem with the early domes was the effects of the sun on the dome.
On very large domes you can actually see the bubble of expansion follow the sun. this would cause leaks in all but the most sophisticated domes.

But In 1977 Jay Baldwin (One of RBF's many proteges) perfected his pillow dome concept with the addition of du-pont's Tefzel film. The tefzel film would enclose argon gas in a pillow shape. the pillows would expand and contract from heat with no effects to the structural integrity.

Along with material science, computer age sensors, aquaponics innovations, and the volumes of Data from the biosphere 2 project, The garden-of-Eden concept could promise self sustaining living areas that would require no outside connections. All Electrical demands could be met using hemp biomass energy or solar cells.

Not only is hemp the most efficient source for Biomass pyrolytic fuels, it also creates a controlled CO2 loop. CO2 absorbed in exchange for O2 would be released along with water when burned for energy. Creating a closed cycle.

6% of America's land could completely replace our nations need for petrollium. Even Plastics and most petrochemicals can now be produced with Hemp cellulose.

Why is pot illegal?
follow the money.

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Post    Posted on: Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:03 am
A book you might be interested in reading is Marshall T. Savage's "The Millenial Project", also found at www.millennial.org. To put it bluntly, the man was nuts, but he came up with some good concepts, especially Asgard (a space station) and Avallon (a Lunar colony).

Your concept of a 'Liner is a good one (I wish I'd though of it), but we lack the demand for such a project, and will until regular runs over long distances are required.

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Post    Posted on: Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:05 am
"atmospheric disturbances" would be a lot of fun.

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Post    Posted on: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:05 pm
idiom wrote:
"atmospheric disturbances" would be a lot of fun.


Actually, considering the size of the craft, I seriously doubt you'd notice anything short of a hurricane, which you would obviously make sure to steer well clear of.

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Post    Posted on: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:04 am
Anyone know how I can delete this post? I Double posted the message that follows but can't figure out how to delete this one.

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Last edited by RBFFFF on Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post    Posted on: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:05 am
I was thinking that if the sphere could reach heights where the the atmospheric winds follow a set direction, A cone extended with the point against the wind, and wind turbines surrounding the base, You could redirect the airodynamic potential to pass around the sphere, and utilize the aircurrents for electricity. A triangular tether arrangement could stabilize the spheres position, and allow for a seperate central tether elevator system.

The Turbines would have to have an enclosed exhaust to counteract the chopping effect and tune a circular vortex to stabalize the currents.

Anyone know enough about upper-atmoshere currents and airodynamics to give some altitude or plausibility estimates?

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DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND:
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Post    Posted on: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:05 pm
RBFFFF wrote:
<snip>
Anyone know enough about upper-atmoshere currents and airodynamics to give some altitude or plausibility estimates?


I don't know enough specifics to be sure, but I've got a gut feeling that it won't work. Don't know why, just that something sounds wrong. Don't quote me on that, though -- no odds as to whether I'm right or not.

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Post    Posted on: Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:23 pm
RBFFFF wrote:
Anyone know how I can delete this post? I Double posted the message that follows but can't figure out how to delete this one.


nope, you can't unfortunately. when we get mods (if we do), then they can do it, but not until then.


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