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An-225 as white knight?

Posted by: Alessandro - Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:49 pm
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An-225 as white knight? 
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Space Walker
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Post    Posted on: Mon May 23, 2005 3:09 am
http://64.78.33.215/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.About%5Ft%2FSpace

Given such a pro-American industry manifesto, they are unlikely to consider the AN-255 at all. They have also seem to have settle on a internal design from Scaled for the air-launch platform

http://64.78.33.215/index.cfm?fuseaction=projects.view&workid=CCD3097A-96B6-175C-97F15F270F2B83AA

I hope the Mriya continues.... :(


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Post    Posted on: Wed May 25, 2005 10:07 pm
Nothing says Rutan has to compete for any more prizes. We are going to need a C-5 replacement--and it seems with the weight of the Strykers and such that AN-225 is what is needed. I think AN-225 as while Knight makes sense.

If Rutan does not like that--he should join with Hu Davis and Star Booster.com Sadly, Hu tells me that Pete Worden is working with someone else for the new ARES (it's not called that now) deal.

At least AN-225 would have use as a transport. A dedicated White Knight would not be as useful in non-space roles as AN-225. There is one flying and one under construction.

I would love to see that one with 777 engines near the fuselage, A-380 engines outboard of those--and the standard engines on the ends.

This would boost the Mryia's power and it should be able of hauling even heavier items. When not launching spacecraft--it moves strykers, oil equipment, etc.

A whole other kind of Heavy Lift. What a lot of people don't know is that--not only could AN-225 haul Buran--it could also transport an entire ENERGIYA core block/booster!

I wonder what happened to the modified Bison bomber that transported Buran in the early days? It might make for a more limited sub-orbital white knight.


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Post    Posted on: Wed May 25, 2005 11:44 pm
If your favourite thing in the whole world is to design planes, and you found funding to design a whopping great big one, why would you buy a hand-me-down?

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Post    Posted on: Thu May 26, 2005 6:09 am
publiusr,

you wrote

Quote:
Nothing says Rutan has to compete for any more prizes. We are going to need a C-5 replacement--and it seems with the weight of the Strykers and such that AN-225 is what is needed. I think AN-225 as while Knight makes sense.


And nobody has said something like that - but this is the Bigelow's America's Space Prize section. And too this thread is a discussion about the idea to win the ASP by AN-225-like White Knights to launch a private orbital SSO-derivative.

So this thread is discussing which way Burt Rutan could win the ASP by the technologies he invented.

What you wrote is off-topic here but may be on-topic in the Teams section, the Spaceflight Cafe section and the Technology section - but here you should focus on the ASP, its rules and the competition for the ASP.



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Post    Posted on: Thu May 26, 2005 5:14 pm
idiom wrote:
If your favourite thing in the whole world is to design planes, and you found funding to design a whopping great big one, why would you buy a hand-me-down?


For the same reason the Air Farce flys hand me down B-52s. A good airframe is hard to beat. That is why we still have 707 based tankers--so far. If Rutan wants to design his own plane that is fine. But that will also take big bucks--and there will be less money available for what is launched from it. Were Rutan to convince the Governor of AL to purchase AN-225 and have the Air National Guard service it--and have Boeing 'donate' some 777 engines--otherwise they slap a tax on Delta IV--Rutan will spend very little on White Knight and put Allen's/Branson's funding directly into the HOTOL /SS2concept.

The goal is to spend as little of your own money as possible--and save that for hardware.


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Post    Posted on: Fri May 27, 2005 6:55 am
This is a forum and a thread in it about the ASP. The ASP requires complete private funding. Once a plane purchased by the governor of AL or any other state is used this rules is hit and Rutan has no chance to qualify for the ASP that way.

So this is no way to get funds for the ASP competition.

The idea fits into the Financial Barriers section very good.



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Post    Posted on: Tue May 31, 2005 1:49 pm
Ekke: the manufacturing plant would be placed in Alabama -- the state would never own one. The plane would then be purchased from Antonov by t/Space. The only question would be whether the An-225 had at any point been developed with Russian government funding.

And Andy: also keep in mind that not every designer like designing big airplanes, just like not every pilot likes flying any given type. A fighter jock can probably fly a '52 if he has to, but he'd likely rather kill himself first than accept that kind of stain on his reputation -- "You flew a what?!"

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Post    Posted on: Tue May 31, 2005 2:06 pm
Yes - based on what you say the rule wouldn't be hit. publiusr instead seems to be speaking of an Antonov funded by the govenor of Alabama - or do I understand wrong the word "purchase"?



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Post    Posted on: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:21 pm
Space Cowboy got it right. If Airbus funds a plant here, the governor might influence them to make the facility a bit bigger so that AN-225 could fit there. The group that owns the AN-225 is bankrupt, so a purchase with some state funds might be in order.

Then, all Rutan needed do is to fund the actual spaceplane to go on top of it--thus saving money. A perfect public private venture--provided he swallows his pride--like the fighter jocks who hate big planes need to do---and give Alabama'a Economic Development Office a call with the phone numbers I posted earlier.

Otherwise that Domed Stadium in B'ham will get the money--and Rutan will be left scrounging for cash to build White Knight II and III--with little money left over to fund actual spacecraft design.

So he can either pout or call for some help. With his star power, he might pull our Governor away from funding a ho-hum Stadium with tax money. Instead, he would help Alabama with a futuristic program. Gov. Riley ticked off a lot of conservatives here when he talked about a new tax---and he probably needs some good PR--so a futuristic plank/platform to run on might appeal to him.

If he is approached.

He can only say no.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:13 am
Alright, then I was misunderstanding the word "purchase" - I thought it meant "buy" or the german word "kaufen" which is a translation of "to buy" too.



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Post    Posted on: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:41 pm
I'm still not quite sure that Bigelow would let that qualify, as the An-225 (at least as far as I remember) was originally developed during the Soviet Era, and so has undoubtedly had some government money in it. That and the fact that Rutan would be using a vehicle that was built by a company not based in the U.S. -- I'm just not confident that Bigelow would let it fly (please pardon the terrible pun).

Oh, and I'm sorry, publiusr, but I gotta say it: the words "Alabama" and "futuristic" just don't work in the same sentence. Let's face it, I'm still getting the occaisonal joke about going to Atlanta: "You know why all the rivers in Florida run North? Because GEORGIA SUCKS!" The southeastern US definitely has an image problem.

Of course, this is coming from the guy with an avatar that shows a dude in a spacesuit and wearing a cowboy hat...

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Post    Posted on: Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:55 pm
That suits me just fine. Let the world keep thinking that, as Alabama expands its new Mercedes plant...and its new Honda plant...and its new Hyundai plant...and its Toyota engine plant...and its All-EELV (and now Delta II) plant in Decatur and...

We're not all Bo Bice and the Girl in Aruba. Good or Evil, Alabama has been a state of leaders, from the Civil War to Civil Rights. To this day, George C. Wallace was the only Third Party candidate that ever had a chance--before the Bremer hit. Sadly, he would have been more progressive than many in Washington now. That isn't saying much.

JFK Jr. once said that we had a defiant streak in us--and that could be both good (Rosa Parks) and bad (Bull Connor).


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Post AN225   Posted on: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:03 am
Rumours to the effect that the An225 operators are bankrupt are completely untrue. The An225 is alive and well and living in Gostomel, Kiev. It is available for charter from Antonov Airlines.(www.antonovairlines.co.uk). Since certification for commercial use it has operated extensively throughout the world including many missions to/from the USA. Antonov has accomplished air drop by parachute extraction from the An124 and has successfully carried various items on the roof of the An225 and the An22. If funds were made available there is no reason why An124 and or An225 could/should not be used as 1st stage methods for air launching of space vehicles. The second An225 remains available for completion in the Antonov facility in Kiev. The An225 and its sister An124 aircraft are incredibly reliable, well constructed, simple and user friendly aircraft with enormous capability. They should not be dismissed lightly or once again the West will miss an opportunity and probably spend more than necessary to achieve its desired aims.


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Post    Posted on: Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:23 am
The only problem or question still not answered is if Bigelow would let qualify an air launch by the AN225. If not then the AN225 could be used as an example for what an airplane could be built as launcher for an air launched orbital vehicle that qualifies for the ASP.



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Post    Posted on: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:32 am
I dont think Burt Rutan has any intention of converting a AN225 or any other plane for that matter. On the T-space website they have details of their VLA (Very Large Aircraft) project with some concept drawings. They say that there are designs but they have not been released yet. They are obviously proposing to design the launch aircraft from scratch or possibily as a bigger version of Scaled's proteus aircraft.

http://www.transformspace.com/index.cfm ... B2997782E4

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