Community > Forum > Perception, Barriers & Regulation of Privatized Space Travel > People are unaware of the potential of private space flight

People are unaware of the potential of private space flight

Posted by: Lepton - Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:23 pm
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 18 posts ] 
People are unaware of the potential of private space flight 
Author Message
Spaceflight Trainee
Spaceflight Trainee
avatar
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:34 pm
Posts: 42
Post People are unaware of the potential of private space flight   Posted on: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:23 pm
Here is a quote from cnn:

If all goes according to plan, it appears likely there will be at least a three-year period beginning in 2010 when the United States will not have a vehicle capable of carrying humans to space.

taken from http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/01/14/bush.space/index.html

The mainstream media completely discounts the possibility that there could be U.S. private citizens flying into space even this year. By 2010, private citizens may very well be orbiting the earth. I hope private companies have multiple vehicles flying people into space regularly by 2010.

I certainly hope that the winning of the x-prize this year will send a jolt through the media and through the U.S. (and the rest of the world)[/url]


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:34 am
Posts: 450
Post So Close!   Posted on: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:28 pm
We are so close! Put a SpaceShipOne cabin on top of a SpaceX Falcon1 and go orbital! Make it a Falcon V and take three people around the Moon for the first time in 34 years!


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 887
Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:56 pm
SS1 would break up on re-entry. Shuttle-cock works at lower velocities/altitudes.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:34 am
Posts: 450
Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:02 pm
I agree. The classic "Mercury/Apollo" reentry heat shield, on the other hand, is very light (5% of reentry mass) and stable. The SpaceShipOne structure is unnecessary for spaceflight, but it exists and IN SPACE (before reentry) it is a modest - but overweight - example of what can be made with composites.


Back to top
Profile WWW
Spaceflight Trainee
Spaceflight Trainee
avatar
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:41 pm
Posts: 34
Location: California
Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:31 pm
You were kidding . . . right? . . . SSO, Orbital . . .

O.K., again, while I am a huge Scaled Composites fan, SSO was BARELY a flyable Sub-Orbital vehicle.

If you want a Mercury style heat shield, stick it on a capsule. Do the math it would be WAY easier/cheaper to engineer a ballistic capsule that a flyback vehicle with a TPS (thermal Protection System).

But, I digress, the Original post was about Public Perception.

All the general public cares about is, Sports, TV, Hollywood Celebs and Sex. (not necessarily in that order). You notice that I didn't place politics in the list, also noticeably absent from the list is private space flight or for that matter Governmentally funded space flight.

The SPACE AGE was 40 years ago.

Until celebrities start flying regularly, and start making a big deal about Space being the future, the average person out there won't care.

How many people that you talk to each day, even know what X-Prize was?
It's great that there is an enthusiast base for private companies developing these systems and technologies. The same thing happened in the 80s with personal computers. I'm happy to be a nerd and get revenge. (Great movie by the way.)

The public will sit up and take notice, they'll just be WAY behind the curve.

My $ 0.02 worth. Buck.Bunny


Back to top
Profile
Spaceflight Trainee
Spaceflight Trainee
avatar
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:37 pm
Posts: 39
Post    Posted on: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:23 am
This is the problem, hence why I started a post called "Objective Look at the AltSpace industry". All to often these forums are crammed with people who have only one response lets use an SS1 or lets get Burt to do it. Please...
I won't knock the accomplishment of winning the X-Prize, but I believe it had more to do with cash than capability. And before all the “Burt is Gods gift to manâ€


Back to top
Profile
Spaceflight Trainee
Spaceflight Trainee
avatar
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:41 pm
Posts: 34
Location: California
Post    Posted on: Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:07 am
Number 2,

Great post. Well thought out and articulated.

You bring up some great points. I don't believe that Not-So-Flyin-Brian has ever been close to flying anything but a kite. If I ever get the time, I'm going to research the X-Prize's court Jester (maybe that should be fool). I haven't had the desire to research the details about his "effort" sufficiently to comment extensively. I do, however know that what he did to the town of Kindersley, by not cancelling his "flight" weeks ahead of the launch instead of hours, even though he knew that he didn't even have a balloon. (Brian showed off his completed balloon months later) To the locals, in Kindersley, that had ordered in supplies to accomodate the expected throngs for his launch, well lets just say I hope Brian has a special place reserved in Hell.

Whew, /END RANT/ :)

Anyways, I digress (and hope someone that actually knows the inside details, like one of his ex-team, starts a thread and exposes this jackass).

You're right,Burt has never designed a commercial success. I had to think about this for awhile. Even Ratheon scrapped the Starship. There is a smattering of his kits out there, but there are alot more succesful kit designers.

That being said, lets say that Burt is an incredibly successful prototype designer.

If, SST can kickoff the industry (and maybe a few of the others that are still working on hardware. Can someone give an update on who some of these companies are and where they are in there development, realistically.), then we will see a large number of high profile people bring this to the attention of the masses sitting on their couches.

I don't think that I agree that because there are a couple of States that want to open spaceports, that public perception has changed. Maybe some State Governors have taken notice of this and don't want to be caught with their pants down. (Oh wait that's only our President that does that.) I don't think the average person on the street even cares what a spaceport is.

I'm spent. No more tonight.

My $ 0.02 worth. Buck.Bunny


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:24 pm
Hello, Number2,

regarding your point that Burt Rutan's success would be more got because of money than because of capability: He enver would have got the money if he wouldn't have had a concept Paul Allen understood and was convinced by. This requires essential and significant capabilities. The reason is that that time SSO didn't exist yet und thus was very abstract.

His capabilities, creativity and innovative ideas got him Paul Allen's money - he had a lot of competitors fkr that money Paul Allen will have known about and Burt Rtaun/Scaled Composites were most convincing in Paul Allen's eyes.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moon Mission Member
Moon Mission Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: London, England
Post    Posted on: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:41 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
His capabilities, creativity and innovative ideas got him Paul Allen's money - he had a lot of competitors fkr that money Paul Allen will have known about and Burt Rtaun/Scaled Composites were most convincing in Paul Allen's eyes.


No one is saying that Burt Rutan isn't more than capable just that others are just as capable and with similar investment could have produced a sub-orbital craft. If someone had given Armadillo those sort of funds then we might have seen a real competition for the X-prize.

_________________
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.


Back to top
Profile WWW
Spaceflight Trainee
Spaceflight Trainee
avatar
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:37 pm
Posts: 39
Post    Posted on: Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:45 pm
Check your facts Ekkehard.
I know what you are trying to say... but it is simply not true.
If that were the case why had over $600mil been put into Kistler. And not a single flight ever took place or even dare I say the half mill that was dropped on Brian Feeney...and we all know what happened there.
Throughout history there are countless cases of cash being infused into projects and organizations that have yet to ever yield anything.
And then there are others that connect with the right party at the right time.
And again there are others that never connect with investment no matter how good there concept and capabilities might be.
Most endeavors that seek capital to move forward usually come to a realization that there are many factor as to why one party might get investment vs. another. These factors typically are, history, politics, money,
Economics, geography, but most of all who you know, and being at the right place at the right time.
Now you might be asking what about capability or concept...well the truth is that the best dose not always win,
And often inferior products will win out over superior, cheaper, and more reliable designs.
This could turn into a very long posting but I think you get the picture.
Just look at examples from other industries and you will see.


Back to top
Profile
Spaceflight Trainee
Spaceflight Trainee
avatar
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:41 pm
Posts: 34
Location: California
Post    Posted on: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:34 pm
The unfortunate reality that we are now faced with, is that to the general public, there is only one company capable of private spaceflight (lets leave the Soyuz stuff out of this).

I know that alot of people here are going to scream about SpaceDev or RocketPlane, etc. But the reality is that "the General Public" only knows about Sir Dick er . . I mean, Virgin Galactic.

Most people don't even realize that Virgin is flying vehicles designed by Scaled composites, manufactured by "The SpaceShip Company" and operated by Sir Dick. . er I mean, Virgin Galactic.

It would have been interesting to see where we would be now, if the Ansari's had really been interested in supporting private space companies and funding one of the other Teams, instead of throwing cash at the X-Prize foundation, where it did little good.

By the Way,

Number2

Having half a million dollars dropped on him, explains alot about Not-So-Flyin-Brian's Brain Dammage. :)

My $ 0.02 worth. Buck.Bunny


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:15 am
Hello, Number2,

in how far is your issue
Quote:
If that were the case why had over $600mil been put into Kistler.
and arguement aginst my point? What you mention means that despite having got several times the amount of money Burt Rutan has got nothing has been accomplished yet. This shows that Rutan has achieved his success because of his capabilities.

Your follow-on argument underlines that the more.

...
...
...



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Spaceflight Trainee
Spaceflight Trainee
avatar
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:37 pm
Posts: 39
Post    Posted on: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:45 pm
Ekkehard you are totally missing my point,
Burt won the X-prize...he got his craft into space.
I am not arguing if he had any capability. that is obvious.
Are you with me...
just checking.
I did not say Burt dose not have the capabilities, I said
"I won't knock the accomplishment of winning the X-Prize, but I believe it had more to do with cash than capability"
The argument is not about Burt having any capability, it is about how investment is not always placed in companies with the most capability.
And in Scaled Composites case I think being first to space had more to do with investment than the capability.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
avatar
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:34 am
Posts: 450
Post Hello, Hello? Anyone out there?   Posted on: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:55 pm
WOW! I didn’t realize these threads had been inactive for so long!

Maybe there is a lack of interest?

Until SpaceX starts meeting their projections for orbital flight, I suggest we “Space Cadetsâ€


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:09 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Maastricht, The Netherlands
Post    Posted on: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:16 am
Oh, i'm very much alive and kicking. More or less thanks to this forum.

Rpspeck, in your professional opinion, how much percentage of that 3600 Kg payload into LEO would have to be fuel in order to get out of LEO into a mars-trajectory? (o boy, hope this didn't sound awfully noobish, but i think you get the question)

I think that space adventures is happy with making lots of money with sending millionaires to the ISS. They won't destroy their own niche-market if they say that they want 40 million to go to Mars(-orbit). That figure will probably be then in the 100 million. Not because it will probably cost that much (allthough, insurance...), but simply because every millionair would immediately pay a few millions more if they could go to Mars. But the problem i see with a mars-mission is the time they spend getting there. You really need a lot of room on a spacecraft in order not to get bored or going psycho on each other. And some sort of artifical gravity system would be nice like dr Zurbin suggests in Mars underground / the case for Mars.


Back to top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
 

Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


© 2014 The International Space Fellowship, developed by Gabitasoft Interactive. All Rights Reserved.  Privacy Policy | Terms of Use