Community > Forum > Technology & Science > Radiation shielding etc.

Radiation shielding etc.

Posted by: Ekkehard Augustin - Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:44 pm
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 27 posts ] 
Radiation shielding etc. 
Author Message
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Wed May 25, 2005 1:55 pm
Wouldn't it be an useful and meaningful experiment to find out what thickness of lunar dust is required to provide protection against the fastest and densest proton clouds coming from the sun? This question is caused by the article "Fast and Furious Solar Storm Shocks Earth and its Scientists" ( www.space.com/scienceastronomy/050524_solar_flare.html ).

That experiment could result in new shielding technologies and materials for manned interplanetary flights. These new shields could and would be made on the moon then. Later - when the Mars is reached - this could be repeated with martian dust.

And it seems to be reuqired really because a manned lunar station needs best protection urgently. The experiment is as important as a technology to get oxygen out of lunar dust.

What about that?

How could such dust shielding be applied to vehicles?

Additionaly - is there carbon on the moon? Bound in molecules, dusts etc.? Or is it possible that carbon is there? Then carbonnanotubes could be made on the moon to provide protection against the solar wind and its particles.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moon Mission Member
Moon Mission Member
avatar
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:56 am
Posts: 1104
Location: Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA
Post    Posted on: Wed May 25, 2005 2:04 pm
I'm almost certain that NASA has done similar research, although the relevance in case of a solar flare might be questionable -- "Sure, it'll handle a flare... Just not a big one......"

_________________
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics
Daniel Guggenheim School of Aerospace Engineering

In Memoriam...
Apollo I - Soyuz I - Soyuz XI - STS-51L - STS-107


Back to top
Profile
Spaceflight Participant
Spaceflight Participant
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:52 pm
Posts: 89
Location: UK, Cardiff
Post    Posted on: Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:32 pm
Heres a bit of info on radiation protection;

Demron has created Radiation Shielding Garment. The material protects against ionizing/nuclear radiation such as Beta and Alpha and it also protects against X-ray and Gamma Emissions. DemronTM suits are constructed from a unique nanotechnology.

Maybe Nanotechnology will be the answer to surving long trips into space...

Also Something else I found

CNT, nanotube, radiation

Abstract:
We investigated the feasibility of using carbon nanotube (CNT) technology for applications in extreme radiation environments that can be encountered in NASA missions. Total ionizing dose (TID) experiments, carried out to 10 Mrad doses, revealed high radiation immunity of the CNT technology. The failure mechanisms were identified and attributed to the CMOS elements and not to the CNT technology itself. With known ''hard-by-design'' methods, CNT technology can be successfully used to >10 Mrad TID. http://www.nsti.org/Nanotech2005/showab ... ?absno=740


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:34 am
This morning Iread an article under www.welt.de saying that nearly all data about the impacts of radiation on human health have been got by observing and diagnosting the people surviving Hiroshima and Nagasaki or living there - all data else are too few and too chaotic.

The article mentions that those two japanese cities are the only places where the radiation is impacting normal average people regarding age and health.

According to that article the use of those data involves the following problems:

1. The radiation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki is extreme but not average or normal - which we all know.

2. Besides such radiation there are significant differences between Japanese, Europeans and Americans (at least) observed. As a consequence it's doubted if that extreme radiation would have the sane impacts on Europeans or Americans - they may be even less

3. It#s not known what the diagnosises would like like if the radiation would have impacted very healthy people only or young people only.

This list doesn't claim to be complete.

Given these issues - might it be that the impacts of radiation in space on humans aren't as high as assumed or feared but below that level?

And could that mean that the current protection measures in use or in development are conservatively choosen in favour of safety?

Are - on the other hand -.the few experiences in space are going into the radiation protection research in order to increase the general validity of data?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:02 am
An article under www.wissenschaft.de is reporting today that the solar wind may act as shield against cosmic radiation. Frank Cucinotta (NASA) has explained that the the magnetic fields of protons emitted by the sun are working as that shield.

In contrary to the particles and especially protons of the cosmic radiation the solar protons can't go through the hull of a vehicle - they are a danger for the astronauts but not that large danger that the cosmic radiation protons would be.

The solar protons are reducing the intensity of the cosmic radiation the astronauts are set to by 30%.

The article mentions too that polyethylen is shielding 20% more cosmic radiation than the aluminum used for space vehicles today.

The next increase would be achievable by liquid hydrogen which is shielding 2.5-times the shield by aluminum. So another proposal Cucinotta mentioned is to surround the crew cabins by the tank for the liquid hydrogen which is used as propellant. This shield would be reduced as the liquid hydrogen is consumed as propellant.

The article lists the following links:

www.bnl.gov/medical/NASA/NSRL_description.asp
science.nasa.gov/

.

No other sources have been lsited regarding the shielding ideas.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:28 am
Regarding the polyethylene the article mentions too that it is used for collecting daily waste. Each household uses polyethylene.

In Germany at least the Greens wanted to remove it decades ago (in between it is no more any topic) - so this shielding material is available by large amounts and should be very cheap.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:31 pm
There is an article today - I will add the link here later - reporting something which could mean that the Venus Express might find a posible additional source of shielding or protection.

The Express is going to have a closer look on regions of the venusian atmosphere which are rich of sulfur. There seems to be the idea that in those regions there might be microbes which protect themselves against UV by sulfur. According to the article sulfur could keep away 50% of that radiation.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)

EDIT:

CLARIFICATION:

The article is "Venus and Earth: Worlds Apart" ( www.space.com/scienceastronomy/051024_m ... onday.html )

I referred to the folowing quote:

Quote:
While the atmosphere reflects most of the Sun’s radiation, there are regions in the upper layer of clouds that absorb nearly half of the ultraviolet light aimed at the planet. These spots occur globally, showing up in one area and then another, sort of like an algae bloom in the ocean. They also appear to contain an abundance of a type of sulfur compound unlike any seen here on Earth.

Scientists haven’t been able to explain what in the region is absorbing all the ultraviolet light. Some scientists think that these mysterious regions could contain photosynthetic microbial organisms, like those that live in the water droplets of clouds in Earth’s atmosphere.

"They might do photosynthesis in the ultraviolet as opposed to the visual spectrum. It’s a tremendous amount of energy if you can make use of it instead of being killed by it," said David Grinspoon, a planetary scientist for NASA and the Southwest Research Institute. "It’s unusual, but natural selection makes the best out of adversity."

The presence of sulfur is somewhat counter intuitive to life, however, since too much of it is usually harmful to organisms. But it reacts in interesting ways in ultraviolet light, Grinspoon said, and it could be used as a sunscreen for organisms and help harness energy for metabolism.

Venus’s clouds appear to have everything life needs to get started, including energy sources and a liquid medium, although it remains to be seen if the droplets are stable enough to last long enough for organisms to live and reproduce.


What about the idea to use those photosynthetic microbes as source for a radiation shield? One aspect is that they might perform a production process which else had to be done by humans and here on Earth.


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:46 am
In an old thread about space hotels I mentioned the idea or possibilty etc. that protection might be got by gases between two layers of walls that are ionized by the solar wind particles thus become magnetized and would protect against more particles.

It has been discussed a bit, doubts have been expressed that I in between found in the media also.

This thread is not focussed on protection but I didn't find a better one and it might be that there is a link to the other points of this thread.

An article under www.wissenschaft.de today says that a method or way of shielding has been found and researched that would remove the requirements of heavy shields if made reality.

The idea is to surround a vehicle by a plasma bubble. The bubble of plasma would be as efficient as an aluminum layer of several centimeters thickness - but would weigh a few grams only.

So vehicle would need a lot less weight for protection than thought up to now.

The concpet researched is to mount a high voltage source to the exterior of the vehicle hull to crack hydrogen into its protons and electrons and then to direct this plasma around the entire vehicle. A supraconductive metal grill surrounding the vehicle is thought of to assist that and that generates a current within the plasma.

The optimal diameter of that shield is thought to be 100 meters.

The required metal grill would have to be installed in orbit because it would be too large to launch it into orbit installed at the vehicle.

Currently a study is worked on if reality already enables to make that reality - this study is ordered by NASA.

Particularly favourable would be if the plasma could be used as propellant also. Then it could be recycled for using it for the shield.

The artcile refers to John Slough and his team at the University of Seattlle, Washington, as well as to www.newscientist.com/news.ns .


Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:09 am
An article under www.wissenschaft.de is telling that the crash that formed to Moon has evaporated earthian plumbum into space.

Where that plumbum has gone is unknown.

So if it would be found it could be gathered to use it for radiation shielding. It wouldn't have to be launched from Earth since it already is in space.

The article refers to Markus Lagos, University Bonn(Germany) and Nature, Vol. 456, page 89 ( www.nature.com/ ).

Another article under www.welt.de tells that Bob Bingham, Rutherford Appleton Laboratory at Oxford, and portugisian colleages have found that a megnetic field would have to have a dianeter of some 100 meters only to protect a vehicle against particles. Its generator would weigh several 100 kilogramms but consume only a third of the energy a communications satellite consumes.

What about it? What about combinations?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:59 pm
The article "Diamagnetic Cavity Shields For Spacecraft?" ( www.space.com/businesstechnology/081110 ... ields.html ) too is reporting about it.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moon Mission Member
Moon Mission Member
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:52 am
Posts: 1375
Location: Exeter, Devon, England
Post    Posted on: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:19 am
I have been readng the article at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7706844.stm - Magnetic shield for spacefarers -

This aricle has a small video, it got me wandering, if NASA or whoever, plan, designs and builds a spacecraft to go to the moon and mars, then there is a large technological breakthrough. Will they go back and redesign the ship to accomodate these changes? Surely it will be hugely costly to redesign something for a change such as a magnetic shield?

On the other hand, not moving forward, because you think there may be a new breakthrough soon, may be as costsly both socially and economically.

Rob

_________________
> http://www.fullmoonclothing.com
> http://www.facebook.com/robsastrophotography
> robgoldsmith@hotmail.co.uk


Back to top
Profile WWW
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:24 pm
An article under www.wissenschaft.de says that desert varnish is suppose to protect microbes against intense ultraviolet radiation on a rock located in the region of Yungay in the Atacama desert where it is that dry that no microbes live in the soil.

What about using desert vernish for radiation protection in space, on the Moon or on Mars? The article mentions that on Mars something is lokking like desert varnish.

Might it be produced artificially?

The article refers to the team of Kimberley Kuhlman (Planetary Science Institute, Tucson, Arizona) et al. Journal of Geophysical Research, Biogeosciences, Vol. 113, G04022, doi:10.1029/2007JG000677 ( www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2008/2007JG000677.shtml ).



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ] 
 

Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


cron
© 2014 The International Space Fellowship, developed by Gabitasoft Interactive. All Rights Reserved.  Privacy Policy | Terms of Use