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Physics of Unitel's concept?

Posted by: Ekkehard Augustin - Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:14 am
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Physics of Unitel's concept? 
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Post    Posted on: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:24 am
I don't make up my mind wether to believe Unitel and their concept or not. I don't know wether to look at all this as realistic and reasonable or not.

I first want to understand their concept.

There is one point that seems to be a strong point at their side - their patents. At their website they are reporting at least one registration number of one of their patents. Their may be believing in their concept based on their patents and the physical knowledges and insights of their researchers.

The concept is sounding strange but I have to trx to understand it before any judgement.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:51 pm
Ok, let me put it this way.

The whole concept, as they say on their website, is "deeply involved in quantum effects", yet at the same time neither of the two chief members of the company (and only two as far as I can tell) have any sort of formal physics education between them. Hell, they don't even have a Ph.D in anything.

Added to that the fact that what they propose doesn't actually have the slightest thing to do with quantum mechanics (it is advanced physics yes, but almost nothing todo with quantum mechanics as such), and you definitely have to start asking some questions.

As for what they propose, yes, some of it has some good ideas - in fact, they're ideas I've heard cited before about how to make interstallar travel possible, however most of them are based in physics we're only half sure about, and engineering we couldn't possibly begin to imagine.

And the other half of their ideas are simply nonsense.

Basically, sorry to burst the bubble, but this is a way of building hype for them to flog a book they probably wrote for a joke while drunk in the pub. I imagine it has some interesting ideas in it, and may well be worth a read, but this isn't anything we're likely to ever actually see.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:53 pm
So NASA actually looked at quantum tunelling in thier Breakthrough Propulsion Physics study...

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/summ.htm#Malloy%20Task

From what these very educated physicists have to say, it could be done... in some fairly distant future time, and by people who have better undertanding of the phenomeon than ANYONE ALIVE TODAY, assuming there was A LOT OF EXPERIMENTAL DATA from which to work.

Still, it is not impossible, so maybe these guys have Steven Hawking's long-lost twin brother tied up thier basement and a captured old Soviet high-energy physics facility in thier attic.


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Post    Posted on: Sat Nov 20, 2004 8:23 am
What they are saying at their website may be totally nonsense or not - I still don't know how to find out based on my own knowledge.

I suppose that I know what the Zero Point Energy is, I know that because of quantum fluctuations a vacuum never is completely empty. I too have read of several new states of gases near at very low temperatures and perhaps additional conditions that are Calld Einstein-Bose-Condensate. All articles I read about Einstein-Bose said that sveral atoms are behaving than as if they were only one atom. There seem to be several kinds of Einstein-Bose Condenstaes.

I can imagine interactions between a charged body and the Zero-Energy but I have problems to understand for what reason Unitel has come to the conclusion that their vehicle is a Einstein-Bose-Condensate.

I know that a laser beam can charge particles but I don' t understand which way this is accelerating their vehicle form their point of view. Aren't the particles pushed awy too by the charging laser beam? Wouldn't the beam accelerate the charged particles too much for the particles to interact with the vehicle? Are they think of the charged particles to pull the charged vehicle?

I don't believe that the colored sections of the lense has anything to do with quantum chromodynamics - I cannot believe that. I suppose that the colors have to do with different energies of light because blue light has higher energy than red light. The purpose might be different amount of charges of the particles that should pull the vehicle - but I'm still missing the links to my knowledges - what I#ve listed here is only a fraction and I have listed all this without reading Unitel's homepage in parallel.

Their concept sounds starnge and may be totally nonsense but I don't see where I could make use of my knowledges of physics for making sure that it's mnonsense.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)

EDIT: To add something more concrete - what has the Einstein-Bose-Condensate to do with Tunneling? What have the quantum fluctuations to do with Tunneling? As far as I know the fluctuations are a process of paired creation and destruction of particles and not a process of tunneling these particles from elsewhere here and from here elsewhere.


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Post    Posted on: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:27 am
Welcome to the world of junk science, Ekkehard.

Take a helping of scientific buzzwords, sprinkle in some theory, flavor with references to real papers and patents, pour in fantasy and jump to half baked conclusions. Viola, spaceship. I think you even did a better job of poking holes than I did. Though you're giving them way to much credit with the primary colored lense. It would be just too much of a coincidence that the three electromagnetic wavelengths percieved by the human eye as primary colors would also provide "wave packet" propulsion to a quantum spaceship.

To say you need to understand a theory completely to disprove it is fallacy. All you need to do is prove that a couple pieces are malarky and the whole thing just falls apart. It's not to say that Unitel might not right in some areas - but these are likely the ones they've borrowed from the scientific press and don't add together to support their claims.

I think it's very safe to say the Untel spaceship is not going to be flying anytime soon.

I do wonder about their holographic storage device - this seems plausible even if the quantum computer is a crock.

At any rate, it's fun to exercise your mind poking holes in pseudoscience, isn't it?


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Post    Posted on: Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:32 am
I feel dissatisfied by their explanation how their concept is working physically. As I said it is sounding strange to me. I'm missing connections and links - points I could aplly my knowledges too (which are increasing).

I'm doubting suspiciously - I'm doubting to taking the concept as plausible as well as taking it as nonsense. I want to see them to construct and to build their vehicle and to launch it - I want that to see and find out what will happen to the vehicle and to Unitel themselves. But that doesn't help in the question I'm asking answeres to here.

Junk science - shouldn't it better called junk technology?

Sometimes junk science and junk technology are worth the trial to understand them - remember "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". All science and technology is junk there but understandable by logic :D . It seems to be worth that in Unitel's case too - to be able to explain to others being enthusiastic about their concept.



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Post    Posted on: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:37 pm
I randomly found a part of the explanations I'm missing in Ulrich Walter's book while looking into it because of the discussuion about the disposal of radioactive materials.

Walter does explain a special technology what is research of by NASA. It's a special kind of sail but different to magnetic sails and light sails. There are twoo kinds of this sail - a differential sail and another kind I don't remeber the name of this moment.

One of these two kinds would use the Zero Point Energy and it would have to be fit to special aspects of the structure of the universe.

But Walter explicitly says that a sail using the ZPE isn't possible for special properties of the ZPE. His explanantions is similar to what is described at homepage of Unitel. So they may be working on something possible in theory but not that way and not in practice.

There is a kind of derivate of these sails Walter considers to be possible in principle - the Casimir effect. This effect could be used - but Unitel's concept doesn't sound like thy want to do that.

If someone is interested I will translate the according page(s) in Walter's book and post it here.



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Post    Posted on: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:27 pm
May be the Alcubiere Drive and thus Warp Drives may get quite another chance in between.

As the article "Spaceship Could Fly Faster Than Light" ( www.space.com/businesstechnology/080813 ... speed.html ) tells
Quote:
Strange as it sounds, current evidence supports the notion that the fabric of space-time can expand faster than the speed of light, because the reality in which light travels is itself expanding.

Cleaver and Richard Obousy, a Baylor graduate student, tapped the latest idea in string theory to devise how to manipulate dark energy and accelerate a spaceship. Their notion is based on the Alcubierre drive, which proposes expanding space-time behind the spaceship while also shrinking space-time in front.
.


The thought that space-time might be warped or altered seems to become refreshed:

Quote:
A newer theory, called M-theory, suggests that those strings all vibrate in yet another dimension.

Manipulating that additional dimension would alter dark energy in terms of height, width, and length, Cleaver and Obousy theorize. Such a capability would permit the altering of space-time for a spaceship, taking advantage of dark energy's effect on the universe.


It seems that the effect is just that of Alcubierre's Warp Drive:

Quote:
"The dark energy is simultaneously decreased just in front of the ship to decrease (and bring to a stop) the expansion rate of the universe in front of the ship," Cleaver told SPACE.com. "If the dark energy can be made negative directly in front of the ship, then space in front of the ship would locally contract."

This loophole means that the spaceship would not conflict with Einstein's Theory of Relativity, which states that objects accelerating to the speed of light require an infinite amount of energy.


But the energy requires seems to be really very much - like is said in one technical manual of the Enterprise quoting Zephraim Cochrane to have known that giant amounts of energy are required:

Quote:
However, the Baylor physicists estimate that manipulating dark energy through the extra dimension requires energy equivalent to the converting the entire mass of Jupiter into pure energy — enough to move a ship measuring roughly 33 feet (10 meters) by 33 feet by 33 feet.
.

As far as I remember my informations aboue the Alcubiere Drive no source of the required amounts was known then - it has been found now it seems.

There still is the question what the error was a student found in Alcubierre's calculations.


What about that all?


Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


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