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Hypothesis Gravitation Energy

Posted by: Sigurd - Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:09 pm
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Hypothesis Gravitation Energy 
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Post Hypothesis Gravitation Energy   Posted on: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:09 pm
I locked this topic, since it's old, and my own understanding knows that most of this outdated info is wrong ;)

I made an attempt to understand gravity and to describe it's existance.
The reason why I post it over here, is to let people proof me wrong or add their idea to the hypothesis.

Based on the information:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/w ... 41020.html
Earth's spin warps space around the planet, according to a new study that confirms a key prediction of Einstein's general theory of relativity.

After 11 years of watching the movements of two Earth-orbiting satellites, researchers found each is dragged by about 6 feet (2 meters) every year because the very fabric of space is twisted by our whirling world.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2639043.stm
Einstein proved right on gravity

The speed of gravity has been measured for the first time, revealing that it does indeed travel at the speed of light.
It means that Einstein's General Theory of Relativity has passed yet another test with flying colors.
The measurement was made by Ed Fomalont of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in Charlottesville, Virginia, and Sergei Kopeikin of the University of Missouri, in Columbia, both US.

If we consider:
That gravity is actually an energy emitted by ["SA" all suns in our universe] OR ["SE" something we're unable to explain today].
Energy moves into all directions, not to 1 direction as mass does.
Energy does not STOP at normal materials (or it should have a 100% dencity, what isn't existing on earth), but it makes the energy more "weak".

It would result in:

A. A lonely planet
The energy pushes from every direction, pushing all onto the object, resulting in normal gravity.
If you would imagen the energy as light, the whole planet will be 100% visible.

B. Earth with moon
The energy pushes both from every direction EXCEPT where each objects blocks the path of the energy to eachothers and lowers the energy power in those directions.

Image
Blue one is earth, gray one is the moon.
You'll see the moon will have more energy blocked from earth as the earth will get blocked by the moon. (the red circle is the WEAKER energy part)
Because the energy is still pushing in ALL other directions, the earth, but especially the weaker moon who is more energy blocked by earth than the other way around, will be pushed closer and closer to the earth (what we call gravity), it's only because of the rotation, that it does not come closer to us.

C. A Small object close to earth
The earth will block a lof of the energy from 1 side, while the other side is still pushing very hard, forcing the object to go (or stay) on earth.
Even in a cave, there is gravity, because materials does not block the energy, only a lot lot lot will be large anough to be affective to change gravity (several kilometres), even some energy will go trough the whole earth.

D. A black hole
An object (collapsed sun or so), with a mass dencity of almost 100%, blocking 99.99% of ALL energy hitting it at gravity (same as light) speed, Giving light etc no way of escaping.

Does our own sun sends out this energy ?

A. if yes: ["SA" all suns in our universe]
In this case, it is possible, IF we consider that ALL other stars energy toghetter, on our location is stronger as the energy the sun sends to us.
Still, if the sun sends out this energy, it means the sun mass is actually MORE as we assumed before.
If the sun would have been a normal planet, the earth would have been crashed onto it.
We only keep our distance, because this energy limits the effect of OTHER energy from other stars entering our area in space, by pushing us a little away from the sun.
This can also explain why our universe keeps expanding, because the universe border has no gravity energy pushing it back.

B. if no: ["SE" something we're unable to explain today].
In this case, the sun has the mass we assume it has right now (or it is flawed for some other reason), maybe the energy is coming from the border of our universe...

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Last edited by Sigurd on Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Hypothesis Gravitation Energy   Posted on: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:16 pm
Sigurd wrote:
B. Earth with moon
The energy pushes both from every direction EXCEPT where each objects blocks the path of the energy to eachothers and lowers the energy power in those directions.


Stating that the area of the earth covered by the moon would actually have less gravity? And wouldnt this result from the energy from the sun being blocked at least partially by the Earth, thus resulting in lower gravity on the side of the Earth facing away from the sun?

Something that maybe could be tested. I know that acceleration due to gravity varies on earth with elevation and other such factors, as has been proven. It would then be possible to attempt to prove this by testing the gravity strength in the same place when facing the sun and when facing away from the sun to test for a difference, assuming that the difference would not be so minute that it couldn't be picked up by current technology and means of testing...

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Post Re: Hypothesis Gravitation Energy   Posted on: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:23 pm
eraurocktchick87 wrote:
Sigurd wrote:
B. Earth with moon
The energy pushes both from every direction EXCEPT where each objects blocks the path of the energy to eachothers and lowers the energy power in those directions.


Stating that the area of the earth covered by the moon would actually have less gravity? And wouldnt this result from the energy from the sun being blocked at least partially by the Earth, thus resulting in lower gravity on the side of the Earth facing away from the sun?

Something that maybe could be tested. I know that acceleration due to gravity varies on earth with elevation and other such factors, as has been proven. It would then be possible to attempt to prove this by testing the gravity strength in the same place when facing the sun and when facing away from the sun to test for a difference, assuming that the difference would not be so minute that it couldn't be picked up by current technology and means of testing...


Thanks for the reply, reading your answer changes my mind a little about something, I think the sun isn't emiting the energy, or we should have an exceptional low one, I just chosed stars as "source" to have some way to explain it... possible it's more related to something a lot more complex...
The test would be something nice, but we know the sun is pulling us to it, so I think we already know the answer... we only don't know "how"... "what is gravity?"... we ONLY know the results... but we need to understand it and know more, to know how to have anti gravity etc...

A way how to test it is:
Have 2 large objects in space with a large mass dencity and an object in between them, and we trace the gravity change (in how strong it is).
Then we do the same with 2 LARGER objects with the SAME large mass, but on this way with lower dencity, and then we put the same thing in between them. and we trace it again.

If it moves exactly at the same speed, it's not an energy or light similar way as I predict (and einstein stuff seems to suggest).
but if it moves at a DIFFRENT speed, it tells us, that not only the object mass counts, and that there is something that's similar as energy or light.
And if it's similar as an energy or light, it tells us, it's maybe something we could be able to manipulate ;)

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Post    Posted on: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:38 am
Hello, Sigurd,

"SE" reminds me to a theoretical hyothesis that might explain a little bit - the particle scientists know at least four forces they couldn't explain unless they assume a special particle being at work they call a "gluon". This "gluon" is the basis for the forces they work on - no electromagnetical force withou gluons, no weak nuclear force without gluons, no strong nuclear force without gluons...

Recently I read an article that in a particle accelerator scientists for an very very extremely short moment have created a quark-gluon-plasma - the only situation quarks are floating free in mixed with gluons.

I don't know wether scientists ever have detected real gluons stand alone.

May be gluons are contributing to what you are looking for but I'm not sure - sun and earth interchanging gluons...?



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Post Re: Hypothesis Gravitation Energy   Posted on: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:01 pm
eraurocktchick87 wrote:
Sigurd wrote:
B. Earth with moon
The energy pushes both from every direction EXCEPT where each objects blocks the path of the energy to eachothers and lowers the energy power in those directions.


Stating that the area of the earth covered by the moon would actually have less gravity? And wouldnt this result from the energy from the sun being blocked at least partially by the Earth, thus resulting in lower gravity on the side of the Earth facing away from the sun?

Something that maybe could be tested. I know that acceleration due to gravity varies on earth with elevation and other such factors, as has been proven. It would then be possible to attempt to prove this by testing the gravity strength in the same place when facing the sun and when facing away from the sun to test for a difference, assuming that the difference would not be so minute that it couldn't be picked up by current technology and means of testing...


there's less gravity on the side of the earth facing away from the sun.... because it's farther away. what it sounds like you're suggesting sigurd is that it's actually less than it should be simply from the law of universal gravitation. personally, i think either a) this isn't the case because that's the kind of thing someone would notice or b) it's too small to measure (like the acceleration on the earth from a person). if this is the case, then it would only be noticeable on macroscopic levels, like galaxies or black holes, which again doesn't really make a lot of sense because if the law of universal gravitation is right then there's more gravity than there should be on that scale, though once you get that big things get really weird and anything's possible. to try to find such an effect, you couldn't just look at the sun and the earth either, the moon certainly matters, and it's possible that other bodies in our solar system could change it as well.

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Post Re: Hypothesis Gravitation Energy   Posted on: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:46 am
TerraMrs wrote:
eraurocktchick87 wrote:
Sigurd wrote:
B. Earth with moon
The energy pushes both from every direction EXCEPT where each objects blocks the path of the energy to eachothers and lowers the energy power in those directions.


Stating that the area of the earth covered by the moon would actually have less gravity? And wouldnt this result from the energy from the sun being blocked at least partially by the Earth, thus resulting in lower gravity on the side of the Earth facing away from the sun?

Something that maybe could be tested. I know that acceleration due to gravity varies on earth with elevation and other such factors, as has been proven. It would then be possible to attempt to prove this by testing the gravity strength in the same place when facing the sun and when facing away from the sun to test for a difference, assuming that the difference would not be so minute that it couldn't be picked up by current technology and means of testing...


there's less gravity on the side of the earth facing away from the sun.... because it's farther away. what it sounds like you're suggesting sigurd is that it's actually less than it should be simply from the law of universal gravitation. personally, i think either a) this isn't the case because that's the kind of thing someone would notice or b) it's too small to measure (like the acceleration on the earth from a person). if this is the case, then it would only be noticeable on macroscopic levels, like galaxies or black holes, which again doesn't really make a lot of sense because if the law of universal gravitation is right then there's more gravity than there should be on that scale, though once you get that big things get really weird and anything's possible. to try to find such an effect, you couldn't just look at the sun and the earth either, the moon certainly matters, and it's possible that other bodies in our solar system could change it as well.


I think there is actually LESS gravity on the earth SIDE looking at the sun...
I think my first "SA" was wrong, and "SE" seems to be more right.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:09 am
In any case they say gravity is weak in general, but the Universe is bound by it. Scientists actually say that its how LARGE of an area it holds, that creates its power. The sun is held in by gravitational forces, its a constant struggle because the stars mass of plasma pushes outward, but the gravitation pull forces it down.

Noticing gravitational fluxes would be slight, at least when Larger celestial bodies are facing you, mainly because no matter what you are in the pull of the body you are ON. The moon no matter what will keep hold on you, facing away for towards the earth. The pull is only slightly altered, into something so small it could only be measured. Same with the Sun and Earth and so on.

Its just like the paralell dimension theory..They have stated that the "Big Bang" was started by two dimensional "membranes" colliding. Everytime they collide a new Universe is born. Its an "out there" theory, but mathematics is proving it correct. They say gravity forces even expand outwards of the universe, in which they either draw, or force away these "membranes".

The jist of all I was trying to say is that gravity will not be noticeably greater as long as the body you are facing is not extremely close. If you could stand on Mercury, the Sun on the "BRIGHT" side would probably pull you off the planet, because in that case Mercuries gravity is far too weak to hold you in.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:03 pm
andromeda wrote:
The jist of all I was trying to say is that gravity will not be noticeably greater as long as the body you are facing is not extremely close. If you could stand on Mercury, the Sun on the "BRIGHT" side would probably pull you off the planet, because in that case Mercuries gravity is far too weak to hold you in.

If that were the case, then what is keeping any atmosphere or even the stuff the surface is made of on the planet on the side of the sun?
The whole point of being on a planet is that you are in it's field of gravity. Near to any body of any significant size, that will allways be that body, not the body it is orbiting.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:58 pm
André wrote:
andromeda wrote:
The jist of all I was trying to say is that gravity will not be noticeably greater as long as the body you are facing is not extremely close. If you could stand on Mercury, the Sun on the "BRIGHT" side would probably pull you off the planet, because in that case Mercuries gravity is far too weak to hold you in.

If that were the case, then what is keeping any atmosphere or even the stuff the surface is made of on the planet on the side of the sun?
The whole point of being on a planet is that you are in it's field of gravity. Near to any body of any significant size, that will allways be that body, not the body it is orbiting.


Oops my mistake, thanks for clarifying

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Post    Posted on: Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:12 pm
i don't know why we're arguing this, it's easy to show that acceleration due to gravity is less on the side of something that faces an object due to the fact that the other object cancels part of the acceleration, and on the far side it's greater because it's being added, but there's still less total gravitational force acting on it from the two bodies (the pull from the one you're not standing on is greater when you're facing it than when you're on the other side), but the body you're standing on will always dominate as long as it's large enough to have meaningful gravity. of course it could get kind of weird if you add in enough massive bodies, and it gets even weirder (because the law of universal gravitation doesn't seem to work) when you get to the galactic scale. i'm no longer entirely sure what you're saying, and i really don't get what you mean by the 'SA' and 'SE' things, they seem to make some assumptions i don't think you can make, but since i can't understand them i don't know. my best guess is you're saying that mass itself cancels out some of the gravitational field of other objects, more so that just the mass's gravity can explain, which i personally think doesn't really make much sense why it would do this.

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