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Populating Mars

Posted by: Lancelot - Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:38 am
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Populating Mars 
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Post Populating Mars   Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:38 am
Hurry it up, I only have 60-70 more years to live.

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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:54 am
Why would you think that.

by then humans will probably be able to live a hell of a lot longer

possibly 150 - 200 + years ...


8)

and by human i dont mean totally Human, there will be some enhancements :D


Genetic Engineering and Implants, use of Nanotech.


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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:12 am
I dont see the point of going to Mars if they/we can't even support a (relative) small space station in orbit.

The most logical step from now on will be to build cost-effective ships that can come into orbit and just a bit beyond, build a huge-ass space station for 1000+ men, experiment everything there first, then go to mars.

Another option would be to build a huge-ass space station which can go to the asteroid field, which is between mars and jupiter, not that much a longer trip i hope, to mine some asteroids etc. etc. We can't just begin to dig on Mars, what do you suppose greenpeace will shout? :P


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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:40 am
I just wanted to point out the reason we can barely support this station is because it is very expensive to do so with current technology. (Not to mention NASAs space ship is broken)

SS1 has already flown to suborbital space 3 times. If Burt can do that with orbital craft, then the price to get there will be considerably less. At this point supporting a space station becomes much more manageable.

Rutan wants his ships to opperate similar to commercial airliners, so weather would eventually not be a problem, if it is not a problem for the local commercial air traffic. :)


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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:30 am
whoa182 wrote:
by then humans will probably be able to live a hell of a lot longer possibly 150 - 200 + years ...

Possibly, but I have bad news ... if everybody could live for at least 150 years then (almost) everybody would get alzheimer's disease. Our bodys would make it but not our minds.

Alzheimer's disease is caused (in part) by deposition of a natural protein called beta-amyloid on the brain, forming plaques ... this process is natural and constant for everybody, but for most people the rate of deposition is too slow to see any effects during their lifetime (average lifespan somewhere between 70-80 yrs for a large proportion of the western world) ... but for some people it occurs faster than normal and they get the disease before they check out. These findings were presented at a conference I recently attended in Vienna this year, so it requires further confirmation, but the data I saw seemed fairly good.

It's an important hurdle that people studying life-extension need to overcome.

DKH

(PS a bit off topic, so I apologise)

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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:16 am
I wonder what the natural lifetime of a man has to do with "populating the Mars".

NASA has been reported to research on "stasis"-like concepts really for travels throught the solar system. If I remember right the processes f life will get slowed down a little bit.

But - more important - the time to reach Mars doesn't count years but moths.

So what's the meaning of "Populating the Mars"? Settlement of thousands of people?



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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:36 pm
Personally I´m would prefer the following, Earth to orbital spacestation
with one space-craft (SpaceShip10 perhaps?) then from there a shuttle that
travels from the spacestation to the moon, no heat-shield necessary.
Then I would start thinking of moon-mars trips..

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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:38 pm
Dr_Keith_H wrote:
whoa182 wrote:
by then humans will probably be able to live a hell of a lot longer possibly 150 - 200 + years ...

Possibly, but I have bad news ... if everybody could live for at least 150 years then (almost) everybody would get alzheimer's disease. Our bodys would make it but not our minds.

Alzheimer's disease is caused (in part) by deposition of a natural protein called beta-amyloid on the brain, forming plaques ... this process is natural and constant for everybody, but for most people the rate of deposition is too slow to see any effects during their lifetime (average lifespan somewhere between 70-80 yrs for a large proportion of the western world) ... but for some people it occurs faster than normal and they get the disease before they check out. These findings were presented at a conference I recently attended in Vienna this year, so it requires further confirmation, but the data I saw seemed fairly good.

It's an important hurdle that people studying life-extension need to overcome.

DKH

(PS a bit off topic, so I apologise)



You obviously know a lot more about this subject than me but, I have good hopes in Genetic Engineering, stem cell research and more to start Slowing down aging processes and degenerative diseases. Sure they have made "white Mice" live equiv to 400-500 HUMAN years. By changing a few Genes. Although it may be more complicated in Humans, I think it will be achieved.

Like i said, Human life expansion wont happen unless We have " upgrades "


Anyway... To colonize mars no life expansion is needed. But Exlporing Space in general. like the galaxy...and more, thats different.

But i totally agree, Reversing, stopping or slowing down these brain Degenerative diseases Would be a high priority in Life extention

http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?m=5

thats a good site to look at, it explains possibly methods of human life extension and what technologies will eventually enable us to slow down agiing process and other stuff. Ray Kurzweil has some interesting idea's


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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:44 pm
Maybe rather than looking at extending human life, we work on a more powerful propulsion system.

But as EA says, in terms of travel to Mars, we're only looking at 6 months-ish (not "moths" EA...i pictured lots of insects flying around everywhere;-) ). The bigger issues are things like radiation and how our body copes with the lower gravity environment causing bone weakening etc. Plus how a larger group of people would cope being stuck in a relatively small space together for 6 months. Anyway, this has been pretty well documented in many sci-fi books, it just needs people to have the money / vision / time / support / etc.

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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:24 pm
Colonizing Mars probably won't happen in your lifetime, if you are referring to true colonization and not the sort of "colonization" that we have on Antartica. Let's assume that Mars Direct flights are as cheap as they claim and are used to get colonists and material to Mars. They're $30 billion a flight for a simple exploration team. Let's make a guess at sending a ship with 100 colonists, plus building supplies. An extremely optimistic estimate would be $250 billion. Now multiply that by 10,000 colonists, a bare minimum to create a Martian colony that can develop and produce industry. You've spent $25 trillion now. How is the Martian colony going to recoup that investment though? If it can't recoup, no one is going to lay out the cash necessary to build it. Not to mention that it is quite possible that it will not be self-sustaining, as low gravity could have disasterous effects on pregnancy.

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Post    Posted on: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:07 pm
yeah there are a lot of health problems that could happen on mars if you were to live there.

I expect the beggining of Colonization would start with Sending more ADVANCED Robots and Supplies to Mars, Robots would build a basic Structures that you will be able to live in. I believe in 20 years Robots will be able to assist and build on their own to make a habital Mars base.

If we get back to the moon in the next 10-20 years and start a Perminant base and colonization i believe its a Certain that we will go to mars shortly after. I believe Most of us will be around to see it happen


Last edited by whoa182 on Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:18 am
Mars is a way away, its not the easiest or the most cost effective to go to. When space travel becomes cheaper, I think then we will move forward to go that far.

The moon is a celestial body that we can easily access, we've done it before and that was years ago. Colonization of mars however is a hard process, the planning and money involved, at least now, would be staggering. Manned missions however would not be impossible, exploration of mars would be something to look forward to.

I would say before we even THINK about colonizing we should go there first, not to mention the moon. No one has been there since 1972. I say get our priorities straight before we reach for the stars, otherwise something may happen, and it won't be good.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:54 am
Hello, Cadet,

please take into account the cost straucture of Mars Direct and possible modifications and changes of that concept.

The spacecraft may be constructed reusable by left in space for ever and usable to go to other planets than Mars too.

It may be reached by private spacecrafts as those under construction to go to orbit and it may take with it such private spacecrafts as carrieres to and from the other planet'S surfaces. The other plantes may be good locations for industrial production...

All this might cause huge reductions of flight costs.



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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:57 pm
You know, I'm not an excellent welder, but I have full confidence that, with weight not a huge concern, I could build a large portion of a spacecraft hull and some of the systems in a matter of weeks.

When the cost to orbit gets down low enough, I have a distinct impression that everything's going to happen just as fast as the dotcom boom, where we go from *nothing* to full-fleged spacefaring in a decade.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:49 pm
wirehead wrote:
You know, I'm not an excellent welder, but I have full confidence that, with weight not a huge concern, I could build a large portion of a spacecraft hull and some of the systems in a matter of weeks.


that or you'd kill yourself trying to maneuver a very large mass in microgravity. skill-wise, i think zero-g will be harder to work in than on earth, because on earth you can always just drop it and it'll stop, you can't do that when if you drop it it'll slam into whatever it was headed to. of course, it's easy to get stuff moving, but it's still just as hard to stop it or change directions. i also wouldn't want work on it without support, seeing as pushing at the wrong time would be liable to send me off into the abyss.

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