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Two progresses to be reported

Posted by: Ekkehard Augustin - Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:08 am
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Two progresses to be reported 
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Post    Posted on: Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:51 am
The article under www.wissenschaft.de/"Bild der Wissenschaft" explicitly says that the entangled receiver-photon changes into the state to be transmitted just in that identical moment ("Im gleichen Augenblick) the state of the entangled sender-photon is changed by entanglement to th photon bearing the information to be transmitted - that is "instantaneously".

What in Zeilinger's experiment has been sent by radio was an additional information necessary for interpretation of the cahnged state of the receiver-photon only. Here are those concepts and technologies are relevant I'm familiar to from my job. There are at least two different kinds of informations involved in the experiment - the information that has been transmitted and another information needed to interprete the transmitted information. These two kinds cannot be differed at the physical level - or at least it is hard to do that at the physical level.

...



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EDIT: Besides - your profile doesn't say anything concerning your location and background. Did we meet in another forum before?


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Post    Posted on: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:28 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
There are at least two different kinds of informations involved in the experiment - the information that has been transmitted and another information needed to interprete the transmitted information.



Almost, but not quite. The state is sent "instantaneously", but the catch is this is _NOT_ information. The new state is such that it is totally random, and when read could provide no information of any form. It does not even tell you whether it has changed state, because you never new its original state to verify against. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle makes it impossible to measure the state first.

Therefore there is absolutely no way to extract _ANY_ information from this entanglement. For all intents and purposes it's useless without that classical communications channel to reinterpret. It may seem like there's some clever way to extract some sort of information, but there isn't. This is actually a fundemental part of quantum mechanics, not just a side-effect.

I'm not a physicist so I hope this makes sense. Here's a usenet thread where exactly the same question regarding information transfer came up


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Post    Posted on: Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:35 pm
There are chances that it is possible at the level of informatics - which is severla levels above the physical level - to provide the information required to interprete the instantaneously transmitted information by other or additional means.

The problem to catch the instanteously sent state bearing the information to transmit is similar to the problem that the CPU of a PC at the physical level never knows if a byte or a bit bears instructional information (instruction to do something), alphabetical information (A-Z, a-z, ".", ",", "!", ...) or numerical information (0-9) or an aggregate information ('XPRIZE', '123.45- $'). The CPU can solve this problem only by using additional informations of interpretational kind - called "program".

At the level of informatics repeatedly random disturbances of the interpretation of informations can be observed. Without any changes of informations or program the interpretation can be restarted without occuring any disturbances. In fact this sometimes is due to the nanoscale-distances within the CPU. In the nearby future quantum-effects will bar any further reduction of theses distances. The technicians are going to use the spin of the electrons instead of their load.

So informatics already has experiences in handling random states.

The developments are going on further - and there are a lot of protocols used to interprete informations. This would - and WILL - be done in case of quantum communication too.

All this can be applied to handle the original state of a photon and the information concerning this state too. And the measurement is included into the transmission anyway - the uncertainty principle is the problem only once at the level of informatics.



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Post    Posted on: Tue Sep 28, 2004 4:44 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
At the level of informatics repeatedly random disturbances of the interpretation of informations can be observed.


This is exactly what quantum mechanics makes IMPOSSIBLE. This is not an issue of precision, measurement, technical advancement, or informatics, it's a core part of quantum entanglement which says this can't be done. It may seem like a limitation of our current technology, but there are heavy mathematics to back up the impossibility of ever extracting any information faster than the speed of light.


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Post    Posted on: Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:35 am
There is a misunderstanding - I didn't want to say that random disturbances could be observed in case of quantum mechanics.

What really was my point is that informatics have developed concepts and techniques to handle random disturbances without observing them. So these concepts and techniquescan be developed further to be apllied to quantum communication.

As we see in the case of Zeilinger's experiment information can be transmitted by quantum communication as well as by radio. To achieve the application in total consists of two parts at least. The interpretation part may be handled another way than during the experiment. That has to be tested yet - followed by further development, research etc. There engineering to be done.

Don't look at it physically only - leave physics for informatics, organization and coordination...



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Post    Posted on: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:40 pm
A new recently achieved progress in the production of nanocarbontubes has been reported in "For Pure Nanotubes, Just Add Water" ( http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... 41208.html ).

By adding water to the production process scientits increased the purity of the tubes. The tubes grew "vertically rather than in many directions" then.

The new method is "quicker, less expensive and less likely to damage the nanotubes than existing processes".

"The method could be used to mass produce carbon nanotubes within five years, and for practical applications within ten years. The work appeared in the November 19, 2004 issue of Science."



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Post    Posted on: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:33 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
A new recently achieved progress in the production of nanocarbontubes has been reported in "For Pure Nanotubes, Just Add Water" ( http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... 41208.html ).

By adding water to the production process scientits increased the purity of the tubes. The tubes grew "vertically rather than in many directions" then.

The new method is "quicker, less expensive and less likely to damage the nanotubes than existing processes".

"The method could be used to mass produce carbon nanotubes within five years, and for practical applications within ten years. The work appeared in the November 19, 2004 issue of Science."



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Thats great. Right now to mass produce carbon nanotubes cost a LOT of money. I think there were predictions that There will be applications using carbon nanotubes within 5 years. but this is a Space forum.. so...

spaceships. Using carbon nanotubes we will see spaceships that are mabey 100x Stronger than steel and 1/6th the Weight! And The materials you can produce by making at the nanoscale will probably be the MOST Toughest and strongest materials we will Have for a very long time, mabey ever!. if 5-10 years is the prediction then that is great, nanotech is going to affect almost every part of the economy, every industry.

Space travel for us mabey a lot closer than most people think. Some engineers and scientist usualy be quite conservative when they make predictions. They are linear and dont count the fact that Technology is accelerating and the paradigm shift rate is doubling every 10 years. so according to ray kurzweil and his models and research we will have 25.000 years of technological progress at todays rate of progress in the 21st century and 100 years of progress in the first 25 years of the 21st century..

So im hopeful that most of us here will get to see space and mabey even take a trip into space for a few days

There is just 1 thing that worries me, we'll never get to another star system any time soon because of the laws of physics. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, so untill we get some science fiction ideas and making them fact. We not going very far. We have a lot of space to cover.

Need more einsteins :D ... Mabey we can geneticly engineer us for more intelligence :p


If anyone would like to learn about nanotech then there are plenty of Videos on the net:

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~nano/forum2004.htm Latest info, check out the videos here!

http://www.nanoindustries.com/streaming.html ( loads of different websites explaining advances in nanotech and lectures.. conferences.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:24 am
Yes - you are right. This includes many chances to improve spacecrafts and save propellant.

But there are other purposes too the nanocarbontubes can be used for that can improve spacecrafts and improve techniques required in space:

1. Nanocarbon tubes are elecrical conductors and perhaps can be used to generate electricity by using the magnetic field.

2. They can be magnetized

3. They can be used as pipelines for liquids.

And the timelines predicted in the article seem Edwards, who urgently is working on the space elevator, to be right in some of his estimations too.

This is a thread regarding progresses of nanocarbontube-technology and quantum communications technology - but...

...what should the nanocarbontubes be used for concerning spacecrafts and space travles? What can you imagine?



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Post    Posted on: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:49 am
A progress regarding the realisation of the technology more than the technology itself is reported by the article "Elevator Man: Bradley Edwards Reaches for the Heights" ( www.space.com/businesstechnology/techno ... 50218.html ).

Edwards has founded a company called Carbon Designs Inc. to develop real "hardware". I suppose the company will do further development of the technology itself too.



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