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Could Perfluorcarbons be a partial solution?

Posted by: Ekkehard Augustin - Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:01 am
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Could Perfluorcarbons be a partial solution? 
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Post Could Perfluorcarbons be a partial solution?   Posted on: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:01 am
Today Perfluorcarbons can help to save life if parts of the lung are out of fundtion or out of work - the Perfluorcarbons can reach them and transport oxygen there. There was an experiment also where a mouse was breathing Perfluorcarbon while being in the liquid.

What's currently not possible yet is to use Perfluorcarbon for diving because a diver is active and not narcotized.

Could it solve pressure-problems to use Perfluorcarbon for space missions? There is the approach to "hibernate" astronauts during a travel to Mars. So they won't be that active - may be Perfluorcarbon could be applied. Would it avoid problems with providing a normal oxygen-nitrogen-atmosphere?

...



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


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Post    Posted on: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:45 pm
People have been looking for a blood subsitute for quite some time. Certain surfactants have been looked at.

LiquiVent is the name of one such product. I have seen pictures of the mice placed inside this liquid that were still able to breathe. I am thinking that such a substance would be good for high-g loading. I think one individual actually suggested human gun-launch. The book had the title Millenium--something in it.

If you all remember the movie The Abyss--you remember the liquid they breathed that helped the body survive presure. The old Cray computers used a similar (perflubron?) mixture to help keep it cool. In one episode of Beyond 2000--a television set was placed in a see-through cube with this liquid and it did not short out.

So I think there would be eventual use for the substance. I have heard it called by many names--Fluisol Liquivent, perflubron, etc. Though I have heard talk about people--young babies--able to breathe water early on. Perhaps with some mods that could be possible.

There is a book by Prehoda called SUSPENDED ANIMATION you may want to take a look at--as well as a Scientific American article that was issued earlier this year. It has a nice list of chemicals you might want to explore.

The key behind such artificial hibernation is to actually REMOVE oxygen as quickly as possible. life processes need a lot of oxygen--but if you have hypoxia--enough O2 remains to do damage--you need true anoxia IIRC. In this state, tissue becomes more resistant to damage--a pin hole in brain tissue showed little damage in that issue of SCI AM


The 'antifreeze' that some fish produce might be better than perflubron for anything beyond artificial hibernation.

However, to really freeze a body--there has to be a way to flash freeze it to prevent damage at a small level with individual ice cryatals acting as tiny molecular knives. You may have to freeze different parts--all but requiring vivisection. :oops:


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Post    Posted on: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:37 am
A more concrete example - if a human is hibernated he is passive. If this is sufficient to apply Perfluorcarbons the human could be isolated by a small chamber. Then outside the chamber no pressure would be required if no non-hibernated humans are present. The oxygen could be mixed to the Perfluorcarbon another way and by portions much smaller than required for normal pressure.

Each time the human as going to be dehibernated first the pressure outside the chamber would be established then the Perfluorcarbon terminated and then the human dehibernated.

Is that possible or are there obstacles and problems I don't know? I think so - but what are they and what's needed to handle them? Would it work if all the obstacles etc. are handled successfully? ...



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Post    Posted on: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:53 pm
Actually--Xenon may be of even more use--though it will cost a bundle. Here are a couple of links to follow up:

http://keithlynch.net/cryonet/25/89.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books


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