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magneto-hydrodynamic concepts

Posted by: timallard - Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:30 am
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magneto-hydrodynamic concepts 
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Post    Posted on: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:39 am
Yeah, it's pretty far out stuff, the ideas are costly to put together for a proof of concept, and yet, might be worth the trouble.

Nobody's figured out a practical MHD propulsion system yet, but I can see where it definitely can be used in higher speed operations because all the molecules are ionized for you.

I'm working on subsonic, low altitude drag reduction with a purpose to learn enough about it to apply the technique for escape velocity vehicles where accelerating the boundary layer would be worth the trouble.

With circuits you can move the molecules where you want them if they are ionized and you have a grid with some current to switch around. To move enough molecules to equal a rocket engine is what MHD can't do, what it can do is remove a lot of the drag and improve the flow and it can do this without a lot of current implying that you can save fuel and add more payload.

Later on there may be a few tricks to learn about MHD that may lead to a way to use it for the sole propulsion and control system.

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Post    Posted on: Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:47 pm
The scuttlebutt is that there was an Aurora--but that it wasn't quite what they thought it would be. The old SR-71/A-12 drones weren't much slower.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:14 pm
To go beyond either one will take boundary layer control, basically trying to reduce the compressional losses along with reducing drag overall.

The molecules of the atmoshpere have to be moved out of the way at high speed normal to the flight path to make way for the volume displacement of the vehicle, as well as reducing shear.

My inclination is that there is a critical point where the flow volume acts like a unit at high speeds due to inertia but only if drag and shear force is so greatly reduced that the vehicle is no longer bound to the flow in a practical sense. In terms of mechanics, you're after a very weak fluid coupling.

Any system capable of doing this in a timeline so molecules are moved from the path without the usual high compression and friction at hyperspeeds just like everybody wants will produce a much faster vehicle.

So, think about it, using spray-on current grids and EMF coatings (and a weather coat or three), you can control a lot about the boundary layer that slows an aircraft down. With rocketry the priority is to reduce the high compressional loads while sitll in an atmosphere for better fuel efficiency (what top speed indicates, same rocket engine).

This is hard to do without shaping the vehicle for the purpose, so given that, the MHD system is used to free the macro flow from coupliing with the surface.

Anyway, seems possible to me now, yet with no modeling done yet, don't want to speculate too much on what to expect other than it'll be a blast if it works ... lol.

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Post Hairy electricity   Posted on: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:40 am
Dude, all you have to do is have long haire in an open cockpit. the air will be ionized from the static electricity! 8)

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Post    Posted on: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Hrm.... Open-cockpit Mach 7 cloth-skinned biplane.... I like it! :roll:

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Post    Posted on: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:31 pm
Sounds like a winner for the Hollywood version ... how young Buck Rogers started his career ... lol 8)

Man, these shades are too dark, I keep hitting the mach 9 button and losing the film crew ...

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Post    Posted on: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:31 pm
Or he could try riding this puppy:
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/sprint.htm

The cone-shaped Sprint missile was powered by a two-stage solid-propellant rocket motor. The motor ignited after the missile had been ejected from its silo by gas pressure, and accelerated the Sprint with more than 100 g. Within seconds, the missile reached a speed of Mach 10+, and the extreme thermodynamic heating demanded sophisticated ablative shielding (the nose was already glowing red-hot less than a second after launch)... Sprint's first stage used fluid-injection jet vanes for control, and the second stage had four small moving fins. The missile was armed with a 1 kT W-66 enhanced radiation thermonuclear warhead, which was detonated by ground command. It destroyed the target's warhead not only with the nuclear blast, but mainly with the very high neutron flux. The whole flight time for an intercept was expected to be not more than 15 seconds.

Hi Buck--where's your face?


The astronautix.com site has been updated--look at the home page.

BTW A rocket usually will beat an airbreather every time. It just needs to pop up through the atmosphere--with only a payload needed to re-enter safely--if even that is required.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:18 pm
If you have some kind of MHD system on the skin, especially up front where all that compression is going on, blast the molecules away from the skin and it'll go faster.

Heating the nose that fast is proof positive that going fast down low is a trick.

So, let's add a full MHD skin system to a Sprint and see what happens ... :wink:

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Post    Posted on: Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:38 pm
More is being learned about the nature of magnetism:
http://www.spacewar.com/news/materials-05zn.html

Superconductor tech
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/energy-tech-05zzzzw.html


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Post    Posted on: Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:59 pm
MHD used for drag reduction or for high velocity "tunnel" creation is based on gaseous ions being available to magnetic fields.

At high velocity, like Sprint, the air molecules are ionized by the compression for you, so, for high velocity travel in low elevations it's required to actually repel the ions away from the axis of flight, more at the leading edge than anywhere else, and I think also to propel them at the speed of flight or greater as well for this to break away in performance from current systems.

Essentially, if one is able to repel the molecules sideways, it lowers the compression ...

How, in practical terms, that can be done is actually old technology, 1960's, but requiring updating to modern composite manufacturing methods to be practical. The 1964 patent drawing is a classic propulsion system using MHD intended for low orbital.

So, this is no mystery process, if you can repel and accelerate the boundary layer as a surface system to add to an existing rocket, it would appear to offer a quantum jump from current performance standards.

BUTTTTTTTTTTT, you gotta' deal with the entry system, what's on the leading point. If that area can acutally suck molecules faster than you fly, we gotta' winner Harry. That ability prevents a compression wave from building on the very leading edge giving an opportunity to blow the molecules away from the axis as they travel along the length of the vehicle.

Slick ...

That's about where what I've been working on comes in, it can be appied to any type of aircraft or rocket, it's a method not a design, the results apply to the vehicle and what it needs for it's performance arena.

Invest heavily in this type of technology ... buy me lunch ... lol

The amps put into entry systems are directly proportional to performance.

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