Community > Forum > Technology & Science > Should this be the scouts and pioneers for colonization?

Should this be the scouts and pioneers for colonization?

Posted by: Ekkehard Augustin - Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:38 am
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 24 posts ] 
Should this be the scouts and pioneers for colonization? 
Author Message
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post Should this be the scouts and pioneers for colonization?   Posted on: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:38 am
Please read the article "William 'Red' Whittaker: A Man and His Machines" ( www.space.com/businesstechnology/techno ... 50209.html ).

To me it sounds like the fundaments of making moon, Mars and other planets habitable for men because these robots won't be as easyly hurt by "hostile" environments as humans would be. But they can do a lot of good work. The man could do the decisions like done for Spirit and Opportunity whose cams could be extended to provide VR.

May "Ambler" be the robot best qualified for diffeicult terrain because of its eight legs?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:44 am
According to www.wissenschaft.de there is an article in Science Vol. 307, p. 1082 ( www.sciencemag.org ) reporting three new developed models of robots.

One of these models is developed at the MIT. It is equiped with a self-learning programm that enables the model to learn to go over an area better and better. A german model uses the natural gravitation and a model of the Cornell University is using pressure to the ground.

All these models are said to require an amount of energy comparable to the natural consumption of energy of human movement. This is considered to be the main advantage because of the restricted capacity of accumulators and batteries.

The self-learning model reminds be significantly to the Mars rovers and their hazcams.

What about using such robots at Mars and other planets? They possible can go where Spirit and Opportunity cannot roll...



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moon Mission Member
Moon Mission Member
avatar
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:56 am
Posts: 1104
Location: Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA
Post    Posted on: Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:13 pm
Why not go that last step further: instead of sending robots that more and more closely approximate humans, just send humans. They're trickier to keep in working order, but they're also far more intelligent, have a built-in self-preservation instinct, and can formulate a completely new plan on-the-spot during emergencies.

_________________
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics
Daniel Guggenheim School of Aerospace Engineering

In Memoriam...
Apollo I - Soyuz I - Soyuz XI - STS-51L - STS-107


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:25 pm
Alright - but humans need food, oxygen and the like. The robots under consideration in the quoted articles could be a good step between robots like Spirit and Opportunity and humans.

Perhaps such robots could be sent for researching Mars not only - perhaps the use of such robots could help to get additional insights useful for increasing the safety of humans that are sent to the Mars.

These robots are the next step only - not the final step. And they could be assisting humans: five astronauts and five robots - the robots arriving much earlier for preparation.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Spaceflight Participant
Spaceflight Participant
User avatar
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:43 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Canada
Post    Posted on: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:14 pm
I'm with Ekke on this one,

Robots first, and they can scout for ideal location and begin preparing a site that may be hospitable to humans (not to mention testing the atmosphere, soil (well, er.. ground) and ... geographical stability (not sure of the word - the stability of the area upon which a structure may be built).

Perhaps, like the idea for the moon, a cave may be drilled into rock, lined with epoxy, covered with a sealable structure, and an atmosphere friendly to humans may be created within it. It would be difficult to have robots do too much without what may be considered excessive trips to move all the required materials to the location, however, they do have a lot more patience than me, and can 'eat' merely by staring into the sun for a while. That kind of food is much lighter to transport.

In looking at William Whittaker's bio:
http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/users/red/

I went to one of his companies, redzone, and found that he has already developed many diverse robots that could have very tangible uses in hostile environments, preforming medium duty work and making 'inteligent' decisions

http://www.redzone.com/index.cfm?method ... orks_index

And, it seems, he is already ahead of the game when it comes to developing robots for a lunar application:

"Lunar Rover Initiative: a pair of mobile robots for the first privately funded lunar mission with telepresence for public participation and education"

http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/users/red/Wprojects.html


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:42 am
Just this moment I remeber that I somewhere have printed articles about swimming robots and the like. The artcles are dating from several years ago but may add useful informations. It will take along time to find them -very sorry. But I will look for them.

The point is that they include robots for the jovian moon Europa and it might be interesting to work out here common features and capabilities of the robots reported by the quoted articles and the robots considered by the printed articles.

I will give asummary of the printed articles once I have found them but I don't know weblinks this moment - sorry.

Has someone else knowledges not included in the quoted articles?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:42 am
An article of www.wissenschaft.de is reporting today that berichten Johann Borenstein and his team at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor have developed a rbot that is a 1,5 meter long artificial snake. The description seems to mean that it could be a good robot for Mars, moon and other planets.

The article doesn't provide a good link but says that "International Journal on Industrial Robots" is reporting about it.

...



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moon Mission Member
Moon Mission Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:15 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: London, England
Post    Posted on: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:01 am
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
Just this moment I remeber that I somewhere have printed articles about swimming robots and the like. The artcles are dating from several years ago but may add useful informations. It will take along time to find them -very sorry. But I will look for them.

The point is that they include robots for the jovian moon Europa and it might be interesting to work out here common features and capabilities of the robots reported by the quoted articles and the robots considered by the printed articles.


Here's an article about Spray, this is a autonomous submersible that is trying out technology that may be used on a future mission to Europa.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=16496

_________________
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.


Back to top
Profile WWW
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:44 am
Hello, Andy Hill,

Thank You Very Much for that interesting article. I read it with very much interest and I am still thinking about it.

In between the has been an additional interesting development reported by the article "New Robot Shifts Shape" ( www.space.com/businesstechnology/050408_tetwalker.html )

This robot seems to more fit to environemnets with no roads and no people who would do repairs or rescue the robot.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moon Mission Member
Moon Mission Member
avatar
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:56 am
Posts: 1104
Location: Georgia Tech, Atlanta, GA
Post    Posted on: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:10 pm
The big problem I have with that tet-bot design is the payload capacity: if you carry a camera, for example, it will have to have a massive gimballing and gyro stabilizer system to keep it upright at all times -- otherwise your footage would look like the Blair Witch Project on LSD.

_________________
American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics
Daniel Guggenheim School of Aerospace Engineering

In Memoriam...
Apollo I - Soyuz I - Soyuz XI - STS-51L - STS-107


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:39 pm
I would have that problem too.

But I am distiguishing between scouts and robots at one side and payload- and equipment-carriers at the other side. Concerning other planets still exploration, detection and reconnaissance are required - the tasks Livingston, Franklin, Nansen, Amundsen, Magellhan and others completed at Earth. That tetwalker might be best for this purpose.

Transportation is another thing...



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:17 am
Cncerning payloads of robots there has been a short information about the possible payload of the german robot "Skorpion" in the german journal "Wirtschaftswoche" I got yesterday.

"Skorpion" has eight legs and can carry a payload of 10 kilogramms. As far as I could see on a picture "Skorpion" has a size similar to the two martian rovers - it is not larger.

...



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:22 am
What about the robots the article "Microbot Madness: Hopping Toward Planetary Exploration" ( www.space.com/businesstechnology/051228_microbots.html ) is reporting?

These spherical robots not only can access very small caves and holes etc. but could form a network spread over a large area. That network might be scalable.

And what about developing another kind out of them which is equipped with mining tools, tools which enable them to create fundaments for Mars-fit houses and much more?

What ideas do you have how to use them and what to do with them (in concrete) ?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 am
Posts: 887
Post    Posted on: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:13 pm
Outside of the bomb-disposal robots on Mars that couldn't do in two years what Lewis and Clark did in a few days--robotics remain a poor choice. We've spent too much on them and not enough on LVs and human spaceflight.


Back to top
Profile
Moderator
Moderator
avatar
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Post    Posted on: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:54 pm
The german company Cairos Technologies from Karlsbad has developed a chip which might be a germ for the technology required for the microbots.

Cairos Technologies has developed a chip which is designed to be incorporated into soccer ablls. The purpose of that chip is to loacte it as precisely as possible. This way the capability is created to decide more precisely than before if the ball has hit the base-line of a goal or if that was not the case.

The price of one antenna unit is reported to be Euro 30,000 - at least four such units are required for correct measurement of the three-dimensional location of the ball.

This sounds to me like that what's required for the armada of microbots.



Dipl.-Vollkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)


Back to top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
 

Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


© 2014 The International Space Fellowship, developed by Gabitasoft Interactive. All Rights Reserved.  Privacy Policy | Terms of Use