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Developing the Sub-Orbit

Posted by: beneficii - Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:05 am
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Developing the Sub-Orbit 
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Post Developing the Sub-Orbit   Posted on: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:05 am
Wouldn't the first practical uses of the sub-orbit be letting people take thrill flights, followed by people taking flight from one city to another (such as from London to Tokyo in a much shorter time)? What would be the obstacles to developing these industries? What steps would have to be taken to ensure these industries are set up? When the sub-orbit is well-developed, would that make going to orbit any easier?

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Post    Posted on: Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:26 pm
Isn't the Public Perception section or the Finnacial Barriers section or the Spaceflight Cafe the correct section for this topic?

May be you have in mind optimisations of suborbital technologies for these purposes and visions. Do you?



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Post    Posted on: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:45 pm
My friends tend to think the thrill seekers will provide for one of the sub-orbital markets, so the technologies to support them will have to be developed. I know another group, though, that sees the high atmosphere as a place to stage material for a leap to orbit. The technologies for floating 'ports' would have to be developed to travel that path.

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Post    Posted on: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:43 am
JP Aerospace is developing a Dark Sky Station according to their website. To me that's a floating port. Could that be the first step towards your idea? What could be made out of it?



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EDIT: I just read in another thread that you are within JP's team so the question seems to be redundant but your answer still would be very interesting.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:18 pm
The main group I was referring to was JP Aerospace. I have some other friends, though, that are just as excited about it. We will take the wraps off another group shortly.

The usefulness of a floating port can be explained a few different ways.

One is the example of a fish that wants to get to space. Should the fish build stuff that launches from the ocean floor or building something that floats on the surface before launching? We are the fish and the atmosphere is our ocean.

Another example comes about when you realize that there are potential technologies for getting to space that cannot be built and operated from the surface of the Earth. Thick air wrecks gossamer structures. Imagine yourself as a Martian faced with the task of getting to orbit. Their lack of thick air offers possibilities we can't use from the Earth's surface.

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Last edited by adiffer on Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post    Posted on: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:16 pm
Your answer is sounding like a Yes to my question.

I find JP Aerospace's concept very good and do like it. But it seems that currently it does require very much material and stuff which will be due to being under development I think.

I am assisting the idea of flying ports - but what happens to the air and gases used by the Ascender when it is to return to the surface again? Will it be left at the floating port, cooled down or the like or will it be lost? And what about floating ports and the potential space elevator working together?



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Post    Posted on: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:14 am
I remember reading that a lot of the groundwork for the Internet was laid in in the 1970's and 1980's, sorta like what is happening now. Then there seemed to be some sort of spark that just caused it to blossom. What is this spark and what causes it? What will be the spark for space?

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Post    Posted on: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:18 pm
beneficii wrote:
I remember reading that a lot of the groundwork for the Internet was laid in in the 1970's and 1980's, sorta like what is happening now. Then there seemed to be some sort of spark that just caused it to blossom. What is this spark and what causes it? What will be the spark for space?


It can be any one of a million things. Essentially, it means that a market is either created or recognized, a market that can only be satisfied by the new, developing technology. In the early '90s (I think it was September '93, to be exact), the required market was for a way of getting two computers to talk to each other. Who knows what it will be for space?

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Post    Posted on: Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:12 pm
spacecowboy wrote:
beneficii wrote:
I remember reading that a lot of the groundwork for the Internet was laid in in the 1970's and 1980's, sorta like what is happening now. Then there seemed to be some sort of spark that just caused it to blossom. What is this spark and what causes it? What will be the spark for space?


It can be any one of a million things. Essentially, it means that a market is either created or recognized, a market that can only be satisfied by the new, developing technology. In the early '90s (I think it was September '93, to be exact), the required market was for a way of getting two computers to talk to each other. Who knows what it will be for space?


What happened in September '93 that caused the required market of getting two computers to talk to each other?

Perhaps we could start naming what could cause a required market of launching people into space in, say, the next 20 years. I can't think of a reason, personally.

Also, check this out. According to this article, we have the technology, it's just that we haven't been functional enough to get into space. Perhaps people can independently verify whether he's right on the technology, but I think the article's valid:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/walker2.html

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Post    Posted on: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:58 am
The internet has actually only been really useful for about three years.
For twenty years however it was /going/ to be huge and so people threw money at it expecting to get rich and a subset of those did. Since the only things which are actually viable still exist.

We are just about at the point where there are enough big players taking it seriously to form a bandwagon. Once theres a bandwagon everybody wants in and there will a huge number of comp[anies putting stuff in space even if the market isn't there. 5 years after that ~70% of the companies die and there's a huge firesale of space assets and everybody left will be happily turning profit on whatever market does eventuate...

Maybe.

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Post    Posted on: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:58 am
Hello, beneficii,

in September 1993 nothing special happened - it has been just the time where a couple of organizational requirements and requirements of economic processes in enterprises had increased up to a critical level. That level has been the Break-Even-Point for the Internet. Enterprises had achieved a certain level of knowledge by learning, the internet has achieved a certain level of mature - and that caused the breakthrough of the Internet.

Simply such situaions and levels will be achieved by space vehicles and travels too.

And you and all the other participants here are working on it a little bit. Some of the people here ar students and will work in the space branch later - they can take some of the ideas and thoughts (etc.) posted here and cause the breakthroughs and some of them really will do that or at least contribute to it. As the XPRIZE Foundation did and continues to do too.

Burt Rutan and Elon Musk are doing the breakthroughs at the markets - Richard Branson is one of those people managing the breakthroughs at the side of Economics.

This is the Technology section of the message board - by posting ideas and thoughts here the technologies are undergoing evolution, detailing, improvements, stimulations and much more. Regardless of nonsense or sense the posts are causing thoughts, thinking, ideas and considerations - they are working as catalysts.

You yourself and all other people here are sources of breakthroughs and success of the technologies discussed here.



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Post    Posted on: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:29 pm
</me points at Ekkehard> Yeah, what he said regarding September '93. I don't know exactly what caused that particular explosion, but I remember reading somewhere that that's when the internet became Joe Schmuck's domain, rather than the realm of hackers and phreakers.

As to the article mentioned by beneficii: he says it better than I can right now, so just read it.

Yes, we have the technology. We've had it for decades. It wasn't near as efficient back then, but we could've done it *EASILY*. But nobody wanted to pay for it. We need to convince the outside world that there is an economic incentive to moving outward. Rare ores are perfect for a beginning. Then comes farmland, and finally simply because there is a large, thriving civilization there.

It's not impossible, boys and girls. We've just got to convince the other six billion people on the planet that it's not.

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