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DaVinci: 40,000ft, 280,000 more to go

Posted by: bad_astra - Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:54 pm
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DaVinci: 40,000ft, 280,000 more to go 
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Post DaVinci: 40,000ft, 280,000 more to go   Posted on: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:54 pm
I don't know if anyone mentioned it already, but DaVinci did have a successfull balloon test. Supposedly it was done in the USA.


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Post    Posted on: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:40 pm
Da Vinci plans tests of balloon, engines
http://xprize.primary.net/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=573&start=15


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Post    Posted on: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:53 am
And - more important - the test launch of the ballon together with the spacecraft has been successful. This may satisfy the critizisers and the discussion concerning the safety of the project.

The test tends to show that we should have confidence that The da Vinci Project isn't playing with anyone's life but doing very good work.



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Post    Posted on: Thu Sep 23, 2004 1:12 am
Does anybody else here believe that da Vinci Project will send Brian Feeney to space and get him back safely, if not October 2, then at least one day pretty soon?

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Post    Posted on: Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:57 pm
:wink:

Hey! Brian Feeney has overcome nearly all obstacles to come this far.
He'll accomplish something on October/02...He'll either succeed, fail but live, die in the attempt, or postpone due to the weather or technical problem(s)...Those are the choices he faces.

I have to admit I never thought he'd get this far, did you?


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Post    Posted on: Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:25 pm
virgair wrote:
:wink:


I have to admit I never thought he'd get this far, did you?


Just How Far is that anyway?
It will be interesting to see what happens Oct 02.
We have only ever heard of their progress.
Not much seen.
Up to now what have they the Da Vinci team actually done? Besides the official unveiling of there completed vehicle. :roll:


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Post    Posted on: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:58 am
I never thought of "they get this far" or "they don't get this far" but allways watched progresses and compared the progresses of the teams. Doing this there was a kind of feeling saying that Scaled were in front, others were affording to get rid of them and The da Vinci Project were acting secretly. This last to me seemed to mean possible progresses and by these assisted optimism. There was something I can't put in words. They seemed to know what they are doing, they seemed to be convinced of their work and the source of that seemed to be the results of their work.

But it's a "mysterious" feeling...



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Post    Posted on: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:23 pm
DA VINCI ON HOLD, 2 WEEKS

http://www.xprizenews.org/index.php?p=513

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Post    Posted on: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:44 pm
Ekkehard Augustin wrote:
And - more important - the test launch of the ballon together with the spacecraft has been successful.


No -- this test was not of the balloon and spacecraft. It wasn't even a test of the actual balloon but a scale model. It wasn't even a scale model made out of the same materials as the one they're planning on for the actual launch.

Calculating the size of that ballloon based on the man in the picture released of the test -- it was about 15 feet wide by about 32 feet tall. That puts its volume at about 4000 cubic feet, and lift capacity at ~260 pounds. This makes it about a 1/32nd scale model by volume. In addition -- it only went to half the altitude planned for the 'real' launch.

In short -- it wasn't much of a test when compared to the real thing and answers *no* questions regarding the safety of their planned launch. The current launch delay is the first of many.


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Post    Posted on: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:23 pm
desertbadger wrote:
Does anybody else here believe that da Vinci Project will send Brian Feeney to space and get him back safely, if not October 2, then at least one day pretty soon?



I don't know about anybody -- but I certainly think that the current delay will be the first of a series pushing the launch date further and further away.

This isn't an opinion triggered by the current delay announcement -- I've been tracking down holes in Davinci's program ever since they made the July 22nd (?) statement that they'd be announcing 'something big' at the end of the month.

-- Their Kerosene and LOX 'engine test' photos on their site is from a suborbital rocket developed by Microcosm. In the photos, Davinci edited out all identifying remarks from the rocket photos and claimed the test firing as their own.

-- Their 'space suit' in the gallery is actually a deep-sea ocean suit developed by a company completely unrelated to space. Even the suit itself is a prototype that the developing company has never built and even if they *did* make it for Davinci -- it's about 160 pounds.

-- The hybrid engine shown test-firing in a PDF file on their site was developed by eAc. On a different forum -- an engineer working for Davinci said they are not using eAc's engine, but instead are developing their own. To date, Davinci has shown *no* photos of their own engine. If it's anywhere close to being ready -- a photo of a test-firing would be simplicity itself to produce and would *not* be giving away any secrets. Test firing photos don't provide anywhere close to sufficient information to reverse-engineer a rocket engine.

-- The only 'hardware' that Davinci has allowed anyone to see were two shells. The WF2 prototype that was supposed to be for engineering testing, but seemed to be mainly used to drag around to exhibitions while they begged for money. The WF6 as displayed on August 5th by all accounts was another empty shell.

-- The balloon test was a great opportunity to show they were doing something. No proprietary hardware was being used, so they could have taken dozens of photos -- preferably with Davinci team members and the GP.COM logo prominently displayed. Instead there was one photo released of an unmarked balloon and an unidentifiable person in an unidentifiable background. It was also held in Colorado. Why there? They're based in Toronto -- on the order of 1500 miles away. Are there no open fields in Canada they could have used? Is this another non-event like the 'engine tests' that really has no relation to Davinci whatsoever?

I can't come up with a rational reason for the inconsistencies. By all logical reasoning -- if they had any hardware, they'd have shown some evidence of it. The fact they they have not done so implies either they have it, and are pathologically paranoid about it being stolen, or they don't have it. If it's the former, and the equipment is so ridiculously easy to reverse-engineer that a photograph is sufficient, then everyone and their kid brother will have enough information to build their own WF6 after the first flight.

I just don't believe that. I don't believe the hardware exists. I don't think that a team of amateurs is going to build their own hybrid engine in a matter of weeks or months.

On the other hand -- I can't understand what the alternative would be. If there truly is no hardware -- or hope thereof in the near future, Feeney at least has to know this. If it doesn't exist, and he knows it doesn't -- then what is the point of all this?!?! It's a logical paradox. They can't have the hardware -- or they'd have given evidence of it. They must have the hardware, or they wouldn't be making the promises they are.

I dunno. However -- my money is on the side that says they have no hardware.


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Post    Posted on: Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:28 pm
In reply to Number2

So how much have you accomplished in the field of rocketry, Number2?
Have you accomplished more than Brian Feeney?

Any why your anonymity, Number 2? [My name is Jacob; more info on
the member's list]
Is your anonymity because somebody beat the s..t out of you in high-school
because you got mouthy and scorned somebody else's work?
Hey! I don't blame him if he did that to you.


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Post    Posted on: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:47 pm
oh my. calm down Virgair, eh? we da Vinci Project believers will have the last laugh -- no need for playground scuffles !

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Post    Posted on: Sun Sep 26, 2004 5:06 pm
It either happens or it doesn't. If it doesn't, there was no harm in cheering on a team. Hell I'd cheer Discraft if I thought they had a 1 in a million chance.


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Post    Posted on: Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:43 am
mrmorris wrote:
-- Their Kerosene and LOX 'engine test' photos on their site is from a suborbital rocket developed by Microcosm. In the photos, Davinci edited out all identifying remarks from the rocket photos and claimed the test firing as their own. ..

<snip>

Much as I had my own (unfounded) suspicions about daVinci (based purely on the lack of information they provide), and even though I find refreshingly skeptical your point by point refutation of any possible seriousness associated with this team, I would think it best if you could provide some helpful links to support your points.

Your post raises the possibility that daVinci/casino combination was merely a marketing strategy ... and that the monies supposedly brought forward by the casino to support daVinci may not in fact have materialised to the extent reported. The beguiling thing here is that what you are describing sounds very much like the sort of thing that would be in character for an organization dedicated to making money out of gambling ... a giant bluff.

In any case, a few supporting data would be nice. If only to avoid the sort of frothing at the mouth (electronic epilepsy I suppose you could call it) which afflicted Virgair. Although I suspect that any true fan of daVinci would probably hold to their faith despite any evidence you might supply.

DKH

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Post    Posted on: Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:33 pm
virgair wrote:
In reply to Number2

So how much have you accomplished in the field of rocketry, Number2?
Have you accomplished more than Brian Feeney?

Any why your anonymity, Number 2? [My name is Jacob; more info on
the member's list]
Is your anonymity because somebody beat the s..t out of you in high-school
because you got mouthy and scorned somebody else's work?
Hey! I don't blame him if he did that to you.


Virgair
I am not scorning their work. I am scorning their lack of it.

Why the harsh words and hostility, I’m not sure why you are personally upset, this is after all this is a discussion board about the xprize and its teams. Where we can discuss facts and figures in a civilized manner.
The only people who should be upset like you are the event organizers in Kindersley.

“Anonymity”??? What are you Dick Tracy, No more “Anonymity” than anyone else on this board? Except for yourself of course. Don’t you know the Internet is full of shady characters?

Oh yes in reply to Dr.Keith here is just one of the links you were looking for.
www.design.caltech.edu/micropropulsion/SR-XM/ photo of the Microcosm rocket. This is the pic that was altered and presented on the Da Vinci website as them having already tested there engine. In fact I think it is still there, in their gallery, but you better hurry before they take it off there site when they see this. :shock:

Virgair,
if you are going to continue to engage in these conversations you have to do so in a rational way, offer facts, and comment to support your position. That is unless you have nothing to back up your position other than cursing at people.

“So how much have you accomplished in the field of rocketry, Number2?
Have you accomplished more than Brian Feeney?”

Well in answer to that. Its not about me, all of the other leading teams at this point have accomplished more than Brian Feeney.
In my own opinion I believe that with a little hype and a lot of B.S. they got their hands on some money announced there intensions to fly, and began to try and acquire all the things they claimed they had, and tested already. And when it came down to doing this they realized it might take longer and actually be difficult to do. Something most of the other teams already knew.


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