Community > Forum > Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) Forum > Idea for simulation or implimentation

Idea for simulation or implimentation

Posted by: Sigma - Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:05 pm
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 12 posts ] 
Idea for simulation or implimentation 
Author Message
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:40 am
Posts: 433
Location: California and Michigan
Post Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:05 pm
Hello, I am an engineering student who has an idea that may or may not be plausible as it is a little more then I know how to simulate or build.

Stage 1 maglev accelerator gets ship to mach 1

Stage 2 scramjets get to speed at which plasma is developed on the main heat shield

Stage 3 use emf or waves to manipulate plasma to accelerate and or reduce drag on ship qnd exploit losses from heating and drag.

Thats pretty much what I have so far.

_________________
Let not the bindings of society hold you back from improving it.... the masses follow where the bold explore.


Back to top
Profile
Space Walker
Space Walker
User avatar
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:30 am
Posts: 236
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:23 am
There's no point in staying in atmosphere longer than necessary and Stage 2 should see you out of most of the atmosphere before you're developing plasma provided your scramjet can get you sufficient velocity which they presently aren't anywhere near capable of doing.

That's why current vehicles have no heatshield, only an aerodynamic nose cone. Staying in atmosphere longer than necessary is inefficient and eats margin. Bit of a trade-off in utilising the rotational energy of the Earth while getting altitude as quickly as possible to escape atmospheric drag.

Stage 3 - no idea but good luck.

_________________
Beancounter from Downunder


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:40 am
Posts: 433
Location: California and Michigan
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Sun May 06, 2012 5:26 pm
The idea is to use a dense power source to exploit the atmosphere as a reaction mass, I have been thinking that scram might not be the way to go, but they don't need as much o2. Could a system force all plasma off heat shield through a new type of expansion engine? Also I am thinking that a very heavy ship that is totally reusable is necessary for deep space mining and colonization.

_________________
Let not the bindings of society hold you back from improving it.... the masses follow where the bold explore.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:40 am
Posts: 433
Location: California and Michigan
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Wed May 16, 2012 1:41 am
How would I go about simulating something like this in blender? Particles have forces etc but the forces are not having a state change and I don't know how to initiate a Particle die and emit the new version like air gas to air plasma. I need someone who is smarter then me to run the Sim.

_________________
Let not the bindings of society hold you back from improving it.... the masses follow where the bold explore.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
User avatar
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:47 am
Posts: 521
Location: Science Park, Cambridge, UK
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Wed May 16, 2012 9:56 am
I don't think you can simulate something like this in blender. Since you have a 'new' idea, you would need to write some simulation software to reflect that idea. Which cannot already be in Blender (under the definition of 'new').

So you will have to work out the physics and write your own software to simulate that physics. That will not be easy.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
avatar
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:44 am
Posts: 707
Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Wed May 16, 2012 7:33 pm
Well, it depends on how complex and accurate you want to make your model. A simple model with just some differential equations can be done in any spreadsheet program. Something a bit more involved would probably be easier in Octave or Python. What is the simplest "spherical horse" description of your system that you can make? Which equations would govern its behaviour?

_________________
Say, can you feel the thunder in the air? Just like the moment ’fore it hits – then it’s everywhere
What is this spell we’re under, do you care? The might to rise above it is now within your sphere
Machinae Supremacy – Sid Icarus


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:40 am
Posts: 433
Location: California and Michigan
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Fri May 18, 2012 4:46 am
Well the system that needs simulating or modeling in small scale would be the plasma stage, which would initiate when the craft is going very fast in thin atmosphere. as for getting the mass and velocity of the reaction mass or the propellants, they are dependent on the heat on the shield and the thickness of the atmosphere. Then the basic field rules apply to the actual acceleration system,

But basically my question had to do with using blender to make atmosphere particles that impart friction and also change properties when they change state. like the fact that plasmas can be manipulated by emf while atmospheres charge is neutral.

By setting up these rules I could get an idea of what shape the craft should be, by running plasma tunnel simulations.

But basically I don't know enough coding or physics to simulate the idea.

_________________
Let not the bindings of society hold you back from improving it.... the masses follow where the bold explore.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
User avatar
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:47 am
Posts: 521
Location: Science Park, Cambridge, UK
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Fri May 18, 2012 11:17 am
Sigma wrote:
But basically I don't know enough coding or physics to simulate the idea.


And therein lies the rub. You would need a very good grasp of physics since what you are proposing is basically a big high energy physics experiment, and you will need to code up the simulation yourself as no-one has done it before.

It's a steep learning curve you have there!


Back to top
Profile
Space Walker
Space Walker
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 4:32 am
Posts: 208
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Fri May 18, 2012 9:51 pm
So who have you actually contacted about your idea?

I am wondering about the process behind somebody having an idea and how that ends up being developed into hardware or just dismissed along the line, maybe even early on.

I have sufficiently not enough understanding of physics to be excited by such a proposal. :) If i had a million dollars and i wouldn't care if it was wasted, i would throw it your way. :)

Anyway obviously you would need to find the people who work in that field, and find any kind of research anywhere being done that is related.
How far have you got with this?

Then you would need to contact them.

But let's say your idea is excelent, and people with more expertise are already working on it.

How could we find these research programs if they haven't made it public that they are working on it?

DARPA is working on their mach 20 glider, they would obviously have people quite well versed in the subject, but i don't think they are allowed to talk about what they already know.

But anyway, i think even if your proposal isn't efficient enough to get to orbit, it still might have other uses, like powered flight around the globe at high mach numbers.

Or powered flight in the atmospheres of other planets or gas giants.

If we are worried about the potential nuclear fall out of an accident in our atmosphere /if you are planning to use nuclear energy to power the plane/, we could still use it in other atmospheres.

Heaps of potential if the physics allow this to work.

_________________
"SCREW THE RULES, WE HAVE MONEY!"
http://www.freespaceships.com


Last edited by box on Sat May 19, 2012 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.



Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Walker
Space Walker
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 4:32 am
Posts: 208
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Fri May 18, 2012 9:59 pm
Just a stupid question:

Wouldn't people working on fusion be of some help?

Have you considered contacting people in that field?

_________________
"SCREW THE RULES, WE HAVE MONEY!"
http://www.freespaceships.com


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:40 am
Posts: 433
Location: California and Michigan
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:58 pm
Anyone a python coder? I need a script that spawns instances of an object, and applies forces using the blender game engine, the objects will be atoms, and I want to make a small model first, and then try and crunch a real world simulation,

The instances would have to have properties like
AtomVelocity
AtomMass
AtomCharge
AtomState

I will use a random seed based on real world parts per million,

I am decent at coding with logic bricks, and passing variables using python and logic bricks and object properties, but am still very green

_________________
Let not the bindings of society hold you back from improving it.... the masses follow where the bold explore.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:40 am
Posts: 433
Location: California and Michigan
Post Re: Idea for simulation or implimentation   Posted on: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:36 pm
So here is the video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFcX9l_8EFg&feature=plcp

This is just a mock-up, as I don't have enough cpu at home to crunch a real simulation, I am trying to think about how to code the simulation at home, without knowing what the rendering will do,

so I have to get it right before I send it out for processing....

So what I have is,
A heat shield that is a assembly of particles, held in place by bond values,

what I need, To use drag values to establish friction, impart energy to bonded particles based on heat value, and have it spread according to real thermodynamics. and at the real heat value I need the bond to break, and the particle "evaporate", and at another energy level I need a transition from 1 neutral charge particle, into many charged pieces, Atom+electrons, at the plasma state threshold, and I need to do this with the surface of the heat shield, as well as the incoming atmosphere.

Also I need an input energy scheme, reactors probably not going to happen due to fallout concerns, a Hydrogen fuel cell could work, but I know that holding hydrogen is not easy....
so if anyone can think of a lightweight power supply......

Anyone ever picked up blender? www.blender.org It's a free open source 3d animation suite and physics simulator, and game engine, combine that with
G.I.M.P (generic image manipulation program)and you can make textures in 2d to be applied to an object, or displacement maps, or emission maps, basically anything you can think of...... I am thinking of starting a blender simulation thread for anyone that is intrested in learning, or just really wants to see if a idea is simulation possiblility.

_________________
Let not the bindings of society hold you back from improving it.... the masses follow where the bold explore.


Back to top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
 

Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


© 2014 The International Space Fellowship, developed by Gabitasoft Interactive. All Rights Reserved.  Privacy Policy | Terms of Use