Independent european vehicle recommended...

The head of the DLR - Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt ("German Center for Aeronautics and Space" as humble translation of my own) - has been quoted by the german journal "Der Spiegel" to have said that from his point of view ESA needs its own manned space vehicle - according to an article in the newsticker under www.welt.de .

He has in mind the Ariane 5 and says that the thrust is sufficient and that the required safety and reliability has to be focussed on. But in particular he wants a reusable vehicle - and is quoted to have said that at best it would be a vehicle that not only lands like an airplane but also launches like an airplane and then could launch into space from Germany also.

Might he be looking to a few private concepts...?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)

I hope so, but why on earth not buy services from SpaceX. There is no point in building an own spacecraft if you're pooring money into developement when you could with that money, fly allready into space. I simply hope they'll, as in ESA, stick to satelites. If they want to go further, forget building your own expensive rocket, just buy one.

Something nasa could prolly learn from as well.

Sorry, back to Esa discussions

Have a look to the images and properties of Astrium's suborbital vehicle reported by the article "Europe Unveils Space Plane for Tourist Market" ( www.space.com/businesstechnology/Astriu ... 61307.html ) - it's a vehicle launching and landing as airplane while going into space from 12 km altitude like a rocket.

Might that behind what the head of the DLR has recommended? Might he have known of that concept much earlier and might he be considering it as a prototype for an orbital vehicle?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)

The proposed European space plane looks a lot like RocketPlane's rocket plane, only it is expected to cost about 50 times more to develop.

I thought Burt Rutan's Quotes on it were interesting

“Like other spaceship concepts that takeoff from a runway (XCOR and Rocketplane) or those that do rocket-powered vertical launches, the EADS vehicle will weigh more than twice as much (per passenger) as SpaceShipTwo and require more than twice the rocket impulse,â€

Ypu don't need to be Burt Rutan to see that. nofi off course to anyone, including Burt Rutan. It simply feels if they don't want to make it cheap.

Where can I read or find Rutan's quotes and comments?



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)

http://www.livescience.com/blogs/2007/0 ... paceliner/

Sour Graps. I'd rather fly with Euro's experts myself.

Under www.marssociety.de there is an article today saying that ESA has ordered two studies from the italian company NGL Prime S.p.A. - one about a reentry-vehicle called IXV and one about a successor of Ariane V. According to the article IXV is designed to glide.

The successor of Ariane V aims at development until 2020.

Both studies together cost Euro 20 mio. 43 companies and institutions of 11 european countries are involved.

If a european reentry vehicle and the successor of Arian V will be developed really after those studies and IXV depends on the Council of Ministers and thus politicians which the author(s) don't trust in that much.

But the article hopes that independent european access to Moon and Mars will be achieved.

Of course this is NOT a vehicle that could launch from and land in Germany that easyly - but it would provide the independency the head of the DLR has in mind.



Dipl.-Volkswirt (bdvb) Augustin (Political Economist)

Current suborbital score:
Burt Rutan: 3
Euro's experts: 0

I think that it is fairly safe to say that Europe has the ability to create a manned suborbital vehicle but I'm a little surprised that EADS have decided to throw their hat in the ring at this late stage especially with such a large price tag.

I cant see them getting so much funding for a vehicle when there are likely to be alternative vehicles being produced at a fraction of the cost in a quicker time frame. I think that EADS looks like it is jumping on the band wagon but it seems to me that a much cheaper wagon has already left. I think they should have gone for an orbital concept using an existing launch vehicle.

People can drive a Fiat Cromo too, but some would rather go in BMW 7-series...

The more competition, the better!

The car analogy doesnt really work as all these vehicles are expensive, theres no such thing as a "space Fiat" they're all BMWs, mores the pity.

Some people might prefer to fly in a craft built by a conventional mainstream aerospace company but the market will be reduced because the cost is higher and it will not be so easy to recoup the investment made in producing the vehicle.

Another point is that the large investment needed to produce the craft is unlikely to come from private investment, a single or group of angel investors are unlikely to cough up such a large amount. This leaves government investment and the EU would probably consider other projects higher priority.