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Government's role in space

Posted by: SuperShuki - Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:44 pm
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Government's role in space 
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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:17 am
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A nation has no obligation to ensure prosperity to its citizens. People have no right to be prosperous, but rather to be free to earn prosperity by themselves. The more money government takes away, the less money they have to earn that prosperity.


Good theory, but Nasa gets six times ROI.

You argue that if there is a liberty problem (normally *caused* by governments) government should fix it! If a market isn't free until the government is around to fix it?

Agian, if the government isn't a required solution to any problem, why isn't Somalia doing better than anybody?

It is pretty easy to argue that 'acting in the international arena' is not in a nations best interest. Staying the heck out of the international arena is a much better policy.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:25 pm
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Agian, if the government isn't a required solution to any problem, why isn't Somalia doing better than anybody?


You're putting words in my mouth.
I wrote that governments should act in the national interest (as opposed to individual interest) not that there shouldn't be government.

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You argue that if there is a liberty problem (normally *caused* by governments) government should fix it! If a market isn't free until the government is around to fix it?


"Liberty problems" can be caused by many things besides government, including civil wars, crime, and corruption. These are things you need a government to fix. These are national interests, not individual interests, because a nation can't function properly with these problems.
I don't know anything about Somalia. Why do you keep bringing it up?

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It is pretty easy to argue that 'acting in the international arena' is not in a nations best interest. Staying the heck out of the international arena is a much better policy.


It depends what action a nation takes. A nation must promote its own interests both at home and abroad. Any country that is unwilling to fight for liberty quickly loses that liberty.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:37 pm
I keep bringing Somalia up becasue you keep saying stuff like this:

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Any country that is unwilling to fight for liberty quickly loses that liberty.


Somalia is a pretty good demonstration that you don't need a government to fend off other nations.

There are a lot of free nations that don't have a space program.

You can't very readily argue that without Nasa America wouldn't be free.

So Liberty can't be a driving reason for having a space program.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:50 pm
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Somalia is a pretty good demonstration that you don't need a government to fend off other nations.


Are you being sarcastic?
Quote:

There are a lot of free nations that don't have a space program.
You can't very readily argue that without Nasa America wouldn't be free.
So Liberty can't be a driving reason for having a space program.


That's a good argument to disband NASA.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:56 pm
No I am not being sarcastic. Somalia has been in a stable anarchy for nineteen years now. They even formed an informal navy called 'pirates' by the media, to defend their territorial waters from fishing and dumping.

It might be a good argument to not have a space program in Israel, but the Americans want more than just liberty for today from their government.

In fact the American constitution, while establishing the need to promote science and art, forbays the existence of a standing army. So in fact, it is the DoD, not Nasa that should be disbanded.

To wit, "By a declaration of rights, I mean one which shall stipulate freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of commerce against monopolies, trial by juries in all cases, no suspensions of the habeas corpus, no standing armies. These are fetters against doing evil which no honest government should decline. - Thomas Jefferson"

Article 1 Section 8:

"To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;"

Given that the DoD's space budget is twice Nasa's, there is really no way one could oppose Nasa without opposing all of the military.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:16 am
idiom wrote:
No I am not being sarcastic. Somalia has been in a stable anarchy for nineteen years now. They even formed an informal navy called 'pirates' by the media, to defend their territorial waters from fishing and dumping.


Now that, surely, is being sarcastic? If not, then I am sure that the two British citizens, kidnapped by Somali pirates from their yacht off the Seychelles (well outside Somali waters) might have something to say. If they are still alive.


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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:01 am
Theres a few citizens around about been kidnapped by the American government. Let alone other governments-who-shall-remain-nameless.

Somalia is pretty much the case study for for advocates of Principled Liberty.

SuperShuki simply isn't applying his principles consistently yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPpqxJboBEc

$18 Billion a year on space exploration is bad bad bad, but Trillions occupying various nations around the world is Liberty?

And thats without even touching his ideas about 'national citizens'.

If liberty means not having people steal from you, or tell you how to live your life, then what nation on Earth has more Liberty than Somalia?

They are also notably free of the horrible tragic burden of a national space program. < That bit is sarcasm.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:44 pm
People in a society in anarchy are not free. Instead of being ruled by a government, they are ruled by whichever thug has the biggest stick. A constrained, limited government takes peoples freedom away, but less so than they would have their freedom taken away if they would be living in an anarchy. Government is not perfect, it is just better than the alternative.

An unconstrained government can be far worse than anarchy. Organized systems (socialist systems) of taking away people's liberty have resulted in the murder of hundreds of millions of innocents, and the number is climbing every day.

For more on the difference between the constrained vision and the unconstrained vision, see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cSyJzlotHU

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:01 pm
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It might be a good argument to not have a space program in Israel, but the Americans want more than just liberty for today from their government.

Oy.
Here's one video for a start.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pdmNynEwYA
Look at that channel for more.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:18 pm
So explain slowly, how Nasa takes away Americans Liberty?

For extra credit, explain how it takes away your liberty.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:17 pm
The money spent on NASA is taken from American taxpayer's pockets, and therefore their liberty to spend that money is taken from them.

My parents live in the United States, and I also have US citizenship (I have dual American/Israeli citizenship).

If you don't care about your liberty to spend money as you please, just send me your credit card number and expiration date. I'll spend the money for you.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:07 am
If they didn't want to spend their money on Nasa, they would use their Liberty to elect people who won't do that.

However, they *want* the money taken out of their pockets. Its their choice.

Do you have a problem with freely elected governments doing what they said they would before they were elected?

Would a national space program be a bad thing if it was funded out of a Soverign wealth fund?

You keep saying you don't mind taxes and limited government, but then you turn around and say taxes are stealing and limited government is eroding liberty.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:37 am
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If they didn't want to spend their money on Nasa, they would use their Liberty to elect people who won't do that.


A democracy isn't liberty, it's the rule of the majority.
Milton Friedman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMb_72hgkJk

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You keep saying you don't mind taxes and limited government, but then you turn around and say taxes are stealing and limited government is eroding liberty.


Limited government does erode liberty, but less so than the alternatives.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:11 pm
Still trying to figure out what your point is here.

You want to live in a country with no taxes and limited prosperity?

Seriously, thats Somalia.

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Post Re: Government's role in space   Posted on: Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:30 pm
idiom wrote:
Still trying to figure out what your point is here.


Then go back and read my previous posts. And look at the links.

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