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5000$ prize?

Posted by: Dan Frederiksen - Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am
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5000$ prize? 
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Post 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am
I'm a little puzzled by the latest news of this prize.
is AA offering a 5k$ prize for something AA has not been able to do with 5 million dollars?
seems almost spiteful or am I missing a context


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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:48 am
It's been around since February. The context you're missing is in the emails at the bottom of the page for the Carmack prize.

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Last edited by Lourens on Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:27 am
no I saw those. they seem spiteful.
is some frustration setting in at AA?

rather than be frustrated they should make constructive change in direction. get some clarity, cut the fat and go for light orbit. if the math doesn't pan out with their budget then either seek bigger money or call it a day.
aimless rocketry isn't doing anybody any favors (other than the keepers of secrets and betrayers of humanity)

focus on a few key optimized techs and combine it to see how far they can take it. I'd say get to a 300Isp kerosene lox engine or as near as they can reasonably get. weight optimize the rocket designs. keep it simple but not too simple. looking at the stig it looks like very massive alu blocks. thick alu and welds. looks way too heavy. I get the simplicity of pressurization but if that 'simplicity' costs you a lot of weight then is it really the best.. non pressurized can be super super light and much easier to make. just need the compressor.

and if there is an inherent problem with smaller rockets being overwhelmed by low atmosphere drag then maybe you have to develop a winged jet first stage to take it above most of the atmosphere. it can be butt ugly with a completely straight extruded wing profile. sort of like a powered glider but ugly. fiberglass wing, body is mostly the rocket. tail spine over it. remote controlled. simple and cheap.
take it to U2 heights if possible. 20km and 1000km/h would be a great start.

multiple stages to shed weight has to be key as well.

just the audacity to do it might attract funding even if first gen has no chance of going to orbit. an ICBM demands attention too.

lean and mean. as little as 5kg leo payload can be super potent if done right. think about how much a cell phone weighs. then think about how light a 50cm mirror for space can be.. or thin film solar.

it can very quickly change the world dramatically. do the math


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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:29 am
Whooo Hoooo, Dan's back.

Not sure what you mean by spiteful. The history of this micro prize is that people on arocket were saying various things about the ease, or not, of launching a rocket to just 100kft. That's it. John Carmack said he would give $5000 to anyone who did it (excluding Armadillo), as long as documentation is available (see prize rules). Some others on the group also added cash, so the total prize fund is about $10k now.

Nobody has yet claimed the prize, which makes me think JC is right - it is difficult.

So the prize is independent of AA.

You have obviously not been paying attention. The STIG was a major departure for them from the VTVL stuff, which, sadly failed to achieve its initial objectives. Even with all their 'heavy ali and big welds'. It wasn't lightness or heaviness that caused it to fail, see their website for all the gory details. Since it was only a test bed, you build tough for the first go. As the numbers say, a fully loaded Stig could have made it to 60miles, but didn't even get to 30kft. They did learn a lot though.

As to the winged launcher - I think you just described Virgin Galactic's WK2. Lots of cost in developing that, and in an area that AA have no experience (I think the main issue with the Stig is aero), so that would be a non-starter for them at this stage to something similar (albeit smaller).


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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:48 pm
I read it all the way through and it did not seem spiteful to me. In a manner similar to the X Prize and other prizes over the years, just a goal and a reward.

And since we are all hungry for news, an incentive to share news about successes. Hope it is an incentive to share news about attempts even in they can't claim the prize.

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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:16 am
I never said anything was ez and the email was directed at me. I guess they feel like they did me a favor leaving my name out of it. But I don't care we will rise to the Challenge anyway. I agree about aimless rocketry and wasting money but I never said anything about easy. By the way guy's your welcome I'm the reason it got started. I hope we get to finish it with a space shot and a little tid-bit of cash wont hurt.

Monroe
Team Prometheus

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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:51 pm
I just posted the emails as John wrote them. No editing other people out was done. You can claim being the inspiration, though that means you "put up" the least relative to your talk of anyone on AR.

The challenge is essentially a case of "put up or shut up" with a pinch of a desire for openness from other teams. There's no spite, but there is a big dose of "this is harder than you all think it is". Dan Frederiksen will, of course, not enter; nor is he capable of winning.

This isn't John's first challenge to AR, the prior one (the "High Performance Propulsion Award") is still in place and has remained unclaimed for more than a decade.
http://media.armadilloaerospace.com/misc/hppa2.htm


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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:42 pm
"You can claim being the inspiration, though that means you "put up" the least relative to your talk of anyone on AR."

It's no claim buddy it's the TRUTH

I put up our launch.

Why would I put up anything other than that if I planed to win it?

Monroe

Keep punching at the little guy your gonna get a black eye this time.

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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:10 am
Monroe wrote:
Keep punching at the little guy your gonna get a black eye this time.

Are you physically threatening me?


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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:08 am
Lol! It's a metaphor. I don't make threats Ben. I might take more time than I like to finish some things but I do finish them. I don't take threats or cheap shots seriously either. As you can see I'm still here.

Monroe

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Post Re: 5000$ prize?   Posted on: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:06 am
Monroe wrote:
Lol! It's a metaphor. I don't make threats Ben. I might take more time than I like to finish some things but I do finish them. I don't take threats or cheap shots seriously either. As you can see I'm still here.

Monroe


Changing the tone of this testy exchange: Monroe?
Your project: Project Prometheus?

Your team is developing a hybrid rocket motor of...only 200Ibs thrust?
Is that enough to send hardware upto 100K feet in altitude?


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