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How many years John

Posted by: Dan Frederiksen - Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:42 pm
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How many years John 
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Post How many years John   Posted on: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:42 pm
to head off the nasaesque trend at AA of drawing the real goals out into eternity, how about you set a year at which point you must have a vehicle in orbit or else you will all publically acknowledge that I was right and you have failed miserably.
can you promise within 5 years? or at least 10? surely 20 years out must be considered a gargantuan failure and waste of life?

how long?
if you don't even have a clue nor even willing to think about it, then it is certain you will never succeed


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:53 am
Why are you trying to troll this forum?

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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:57 am
AGr, you are the troll sitting under the bridge heckling the living.

I asked a legitimate question, a very wise one at that.


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:55 am
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
AGr, you are the troll sitting under the bridge heckling the living.

I asked a legitimate question, a very wise one at that.

A question yes, a wise one ? :roll: ... no.

The answer is simple "when done". They probably don't know when, but we all know they are making progress, so they will get there eventually.

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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:18 am
The question is for AA, not the groupies' brown nosed misguided attempt to protect AA from my sobering question.


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:19 am
My guess is that Dan is just totally annoyed that Armadillo Aerospace is constantly making progress and developing new stuff while he is sitting in front of his computer, dreaming his dreams of space travel, too afraid of trying to achieve some progress in aerospace himself.

It is just like people watching sports on TV and complaining about a NFL/NHL/NBA/soccer player, believing that they could do sooo much better...


Whatever you may believe Dan, aerospace is _HARD_ to do and things tend to take longer than expected. Just stop complaining about those people who are doing their best to make progress. And no, your question was not a wise one. I would not even consider it a real question, it was an insult masked as a (pointless) question.

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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:00 pm
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
The question is for AA, not the groupies' brown nosed misguided attempt to protect AA from my sobering question.


Well then, posting on a PUBLIC forum is likely not the way to broach this question.

Drive to Texas and ask the question yourself, go to a conference where a member off AA will speak, send them an email, call their facility, write them a letter.

Unless you are a paying customer, the bile in your posts is unjustified. Armadillo's only "customers" at this point are NGLLC and Rocket Racing, both of which are EXTREMELY happy with AA's progress

I have to agree with Marcus Zottl, your voice denotes your class, and your voice is wanting.


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:48 pm
Spacexula, it's not a question. and it has to be in a public forum because it's something they don't want to answer and the public shame of it is needed to goad them. tragic but true. same as GM and electric cars. asking them didn't work. massive public shaming did. hopefully AA is closer to being reasonable than GM was/is.

suborbital up and down is useless in itself. if they are not keenly focused on rapidly going for orbit or some other actually ambituous useful goal they be will ineffective in changing anything. they have probably forgotten that they wanted to change something.
if it never goes for orbit and more then it has been a spectacular waste of money and yet another nail in the coffin of hope for spaceflight. yet another example that it was futile. sigh

soon it will have been a decade for AA. when does it become pathetic and wasteful? after 15 years of not going for orbit? after 20? 30?
if the tiniest real victory takes 30 years then something is wrong.

so how long? WHEN? have you already given up John?


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:03 pm
You are an Idiot

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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:11 pm
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
... massive public shaming did. hopefully AA is closer to being reasonable than GM was/is.... suborbital up and down is useless in itself. ... soon it will have been a decade for AA. when does it become pathetic and wasteful? after 15 years of not going for orbit? after 20? 30?
if the tiniest real victory takes 30 years then something is wrong.


Armadillo Aerospace is John Carmack's hobby. Video games is how he pays his bills.

The original goal post for AA was the original X prize, Suborbital flights. They are getting quite close to that with their 1st boosted hops and their upcoming NGLLC. And they are much further along in this endeavor than their 2 main competitors.

Tell NASA, and Noaa, Virgin Galactic (and their hundreds of paying customers), Up aerospace, and all the university around the world that they are wasting their time on suborbital. I am sure need your validation.

But most of all GM is a public company, that has taken MANY government checks from the US, other nations, and states. Armadillo is not a public company, therefore has no debt to the public.

If you wish to pile blame on a company for lack of progress, maybe you should start with, Kistler, ULA, SpaceX, Orbital, NASA, JAXA, RSA. You know the ones that have took government money, and are seriously funded.


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:57 pm
No, Rob, I'm actually quite the genius.
brutally honest perhaps and that often rubs the more 'relaxed minds' the wrong way but I do that because I see the world much clearer than you sheep do. Not because I'm an idiot.
You think I should praise AA, be the happy sheep. But I'm all too aware of what could be and how what AA is doing does not measure up. I don't particularly like the notion of decades passing by without anything significant achieved and AA is plotting an unambitious course so far. many of you might like this small time hobby bullshit but I'd atleast offer the occassional sobering truth in the faint hope that it might resonate and something cool would actually happen in this piece of *** world. And rocket racing league and 'base jumping' is utterly useless.
Giving wealthy people a roller coaster ride doesn't quite satisfy my intelligence.

With the same effort much cooler things could be achieved. A sub 10kg LEO payload rocket should be designed immediately. it wouldn't weigh much, comparable to the vehicles they have already. purpose built, no modular crap. the first payload should be a space telescope, one that could look both up and down. services could be sold to both geo companies and space telescope time for universities. I want to see it flow over area51 with live HD video streaming down and see vehicles on the runway in 1meter resolution or better. a space mirror can weigh very little so what I propose is more than possible within 10kg. secondary IR and thermal camera perhaps. next I would launch a phased array radar satellite to watch the skies. again something that lends itself to low weight. to see what's coming and what's going. all the illicit vehicles and perhaps a few foreigners. to have eyes to see what's actually going on and not have to rely on the liars to be informed. because.. well... they lie.
I want those satellites to watch the other satellites. to take pictures of them, to watch them. maybe catch a few of those satellites that are not listed.
on top of that it could do some fluff beauty shots like track the shuttle or whatever rocket nasa and others launch. all of this is possible within 10kg.
then I would build a slightly larger vehicle that could lift a 10kg payload to mars. and an orbiter to the moon. maybe go for the lunar prize if it can be done quickly and for less than the prize so it doesn't just serve as a distraction and waste of life.
I imagine that a cleverly built 10kg vehicle to mars would be able to land a small rover on mars and do more than nasa did with the MERs.
some of it could probably be commercially selfsustaining but even the smallest real space succes could probably wrestle funding up from various space agencies. maybe ESA or Japan. maybe even Nasa since the stupidity is not monolithic.
I imagine someone like google might also develop an urge to throw millions their way.

as for the space telescope development, I'm sure several universities would be interested in fabricating a few funky light weight mirrors and attaching a camera sensor and some telemetry electronics. like everyone else they are starved by nasa so they should be pretty hungry for a chance to do something actually cool.

if done smart you can outperform nasa in many ways within what John can comfortably pay for by himself. nasa stupidity is that great. it could even be quite profitable. heck Elon Musk, although with no particular aim it seems, has become grossly profitable building huge rockets. They throw billions his way now.

sigh. wake up John. sigh


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:09 pm
Dan

Why don't you do it then?

Im sure a genius could think up a grand way to do all of this, raise the money and start an aerospace company.

What's your plan? Or are you just going to point your fingure at others from the side-line?

I am generally interested to see what you are doing better which gives you the right to question others.

Should be easy for you, after all you seem to have really good personal skills.

Rob

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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:51 pm
*sigh* I was kind of hoping no one would reply to this guy. I don't doubt that he is in fact quite intelligent, however, he has a dozy of a psychological problem that we are not going to be able to fix here. A superiority / inferiority complex of some sort or another. Belittling John or us my feel good to him and give him a way to communicate his frustration, but I am not sure we should encourage him.

On the other hand he is entertaining and I would propose we keep him as a pet.

Que the angry / martyr retort.

Dan. It's ok to believe in conspiracies and that other people are lazy or inferior. Just keep the anger and aggravation out of it. You are not going to convince anyone by yelling. Guide gently so we sheep don't know where we are being led. That is, after all, the way God gets things done.

All the best,

Daniel


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:30 pm
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
No, Rob, I'm actually quite the genius.
brutally honest perhaps and that often rubs the more 'relaxed minds' the wrong way but I do that because I see the world much clearer than you sheep do. Not because I'm an idiot.


You might be a "genius", but you are pretty typical. Do you have any type of engeneering background? Some of the statements you made in your diatribe seem a little ignorant of basic principles.

Armadillo is NOWHERE near orbital capacity, as in 35 times too little energy to get to orbit even if they get to suborbital, so holding AA responsible for lack or orbital capacity is like holding rowboat manufacturer responsible for lack of Supertankers.

Aerospace history shows that space jumping and joy rides for ritch people DO lead to grater capacity in the future. Look at the barn stormers, and early aviation (really only a rich mans game at first).

A 10kg to Mars vehicle being only "slightly" larger than a 10kg to LEO vehicle.... The rocket equation doesn't agree with you.

A space telescope that looks both at the earth at 1m resolution and into space? Do you know anything about optics? 1 meter resolution satellites are incredibly complicated, and heavy. The Gyroscopes necessary to aim them are neither simple, cheap, or low power. Look online for a convertible telescope/microscope, you won't find them, because it doesn't work that way.

If your a a "genius" you are an genius who is ignorant of basic engineering facts. AA is building a reusable suborbital sounding rocket at this point, which could REALLY change the game for NOAA, NASA, and the universities.

Elon Musk, John Carmack, Jeff Bezos, Peter Diamandis, Burt Rutan, Richard Branson, and Robert Bigelow all could put their money into MUCH more profitable endeavors, and likely been richer than they are now, but all of them are putting the money they could spend on their children into turning their large fortunes into smaller fortunes trying to bring us closer to what you say you want.

Go write some code, bend some metal, or support an advocacy group. But if you are going to read your Star Trek Technical manual and insult someone who is go is doing REAL work on a website called "Space Fellowship", you are really sad.

I wait patently for this tread to be deleted.


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Post Re: How many years John   Posted on: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:41 am
we had this debate before and everyone agreed he's welcome to troll as long as he stays on topic.

just ignore his posts and they might magically vanish...

on the other hand, there's no underestimating the value of a good troll to get the juices of the community flowing.

my personal theory: he's just mad because he sucks at Doom :)

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