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The Role of Religion in Space Travel

Posted by: Rob Goldsmith - Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:46 pm
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The Role of Religion in Space Travel 

Are you religious?
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The Role of Religion in Space Travel 
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Post Empirical proof of Judaism   Posted on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:30 am
God took the Jewish people out of Egypt. The Jewish people, not as individuals, but as a 3,000,000 strong nation, experienced the redemption. The Jewish people, as a 3 million strong nation, together, experienced God speak to them directly at Mount Sinai. The Jewish people, as a 3 million strong nation, passed this experience down through the generations, from father to son, from teacher to student, up until this very day. This is not based on the experience of just one man or a small group. This is the collective experience of a nation. If at any point in the chain someone would alter this message, the alteration would immediately be recognized by the rest of the nation and rejected. Therefore the collective experience, the message, the fundamentals of Judaism, remain of the same quality as the original experience in Egypt and at Mount Sinai.

And now the Jewish people are experiencing the last redemption, as a nation. At the end of this redemption, it will be clear to all the world that God exists, and that the Jewish nation is the chosen people. Chosen to bring this message to the world. As this is not the end of the redemption, not everything that was prophecied has occured yet. But many things that were prophecied before the destruction of the first Temple, 2,500 years ago, have occured. For example- the Jewish people returning to their land, the Jewish people regaining sovereignity in their land, the desert blooming.

To read more, read the book, the Kuzari, by Rabbi Yehuda Halevi. Also the modern books Permission to Believe and Permission to Recieve. Both by Lawrence Kelemen. Available through Amazon.com. Even if you don't buy the books, looking through the first few pages on Amazon will give you an idea.

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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:32 am
Don't you mean Hebrew instead of Jewish in all of the references from before the Babylonian exile? That 3 million number does not apply merely to the tribe of Judah does it?

Not nit picking just wonder what you are referencing


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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:01 am
Hebrew, Israelite, Jewish- Meaning the nation of Israel. All different words for the same thing. Even when the 10 tribes were exiled, there were still other tribes among the tribes that were left. A "Jew" doesn't refer to someone from the tribe of Judah. It refers to anyone from the nation of Israel. That includes converts, the Levites, etc. Well, converts are an issue. But definitely to all the other tribes.

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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:58 am
Isn't there also a lack of evidence for the Jewish presence in Egypt? One or two families, probably - the people itself? Where's the evidence?


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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:45 pm
The proof that Jews came out of Egypt is the same as the belief in God and the Torah (the message). It is experiencal- a nation professes that they, as a nation, came out of Egypt. The holiday of Pessach (Passover) is coming up. During the Passover Seder (An order of things we do on the night of Passover) the point is made over and over again, that the children are being passed over the message, that the Jewish people were redeemed from Egypt. Some quotes:
In response to questions the children ask about why we do the seder: "We were slaves in Egypt. And God almighty took us out from there with a strong hand and an outstretched arm"
"In every generation and generation an individual is obligated to see himself as if he left Egypt. As it is written: "And you shall say to your sons on this day, thus: because of this God did for me in taking me out of Egypt." For it was not only our ancestors that the Holy One, blessed be he, redeemed from Egypt, but also we were redeemed along with them, as it says: "And we, He took out from there, in order to bring us, to give us the Land which he swore to our forefathers."
-From the Pesach (Passover) Haggada

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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:15 pm
By the way, I'm not out to get people to be Jews. Non-Jews' role is to just be good people, as defined by God. There is no reason why a non-Jew can't be righteous, and get a share in the next world. In fact, it's easier- they have less commandments (7 basic commandments, as opposed to 613 basic commandments). They just don't carry the message. For this reason this proof doesn't apply to them. At least, first hand. It does apply to non-Jews second hand.

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Post Back on topic: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:22 pm
Does the Genesis commandment: 'To go forth and multiply' apply to space?

In what ways do various religions restrict the imperative to travel in space?

Does the hope of meeting alien species simply function as a replacement crutch for those without religion?

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Post Re:   Posted on: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:22 pm
IrquiM wrote:
Steven Weinberg said, "Without religion good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do bad things that takes religion"


Stalin was an atheist.


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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:09 am
Why is this a credible topic? Religion will be important on an individual basis. Space's magnificence will have a profound affect on people. I'm sure a very real spiritual connection will be there. I don't think this is the place to discuss it though. When technology advances enough so that people are truly living in space, then reopen this thread. Let's focus on finances and hardware.

Unless someone wants to start a space religion :P


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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:50 am
An order of space monks did occur to me. Its one way to get your production costs and staff turnover down...

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Post Re: Re:   Posted on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:34 am
Pooua wrote:
IrquiM wrote:
Steven Weinberg said, "Without religion good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do bad things that takes religion"


Stalin was an atheist.


And...? He also trained as an orthodox priest. Stalin was just part of the "bad people".
Hitler was catholic by the way, and a follower of Martin Luther's teachings regarding the Jews.

Nothing of what he did to his fellow citizens were because he was an atheist. Religion was seen as a competitor to the government, and as you might know, they didn't exactly like competition. He even tortured and persecuted fellow revolutionaries because they didn't fully agree with him.


Using people like Stalin, Hitler (don't know why he's being used?), Pol Pot, etc. to argue against atheism never helps your cause.


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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:57 am
I think that the biblical injunction to be fruitful and multiply, applies to space, especially when you take into consideration the end of the sentence: "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the land" (Genesis 9:1). I'll check with my Rabbi to see if the word "land" includes outer space. In context, I think it does. The word "Adama" - "earth" isn't used, the word "Eretz" - "land" is, but the word "Olam" - "world" isn't either.

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Last edited by SuperShuki on Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Re: bad people.   Posted on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:07 pm
IrquiM wrote:
Pooua wrote:
IrquiM wrote:
Steven Weinberg said, "Without religion good people do good things and bad people do bad things, but for a good person to do bad things that takes religion"


Stalin was an atheist.


And...? He also trained as an orthodox priest. Stalin was just part of the "bad people".
Hitler was catholic by the way, and a follower of Martin Luther's teachings regarding the Jews.

Nothing of what he did to his fellow citizens were because he was an atheist. Religion was seen as a competitor to the government, and as you might know, they didn't exactly like competition. He even tortured and persecuted fellow revolutionaries because they didn't fully agree with him.


Using people like Stalin, Hitler (don't know why he's being used?), Pol Pot, etc. to argue against atheism never helps your cause.


Fascism and Communism (and Socialism) are based upon the principle that individuals are subservient to government. This principle in turn is based on the belief that individuals do not have individual freedoms. The idea of individual freedom is based on the Jewish, God-based belief that everyone has been given life and possessions by God, and therefore, no other human or government authority has the right to take life and possessions away. Fascism, Communism, and Socialism are only able to exist if the individual doesn't have an innate right to his belongings and life (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, in different language). Therefore Communism, and Fascism, and Socialism are innately anti-God. They are based in atheism, and cannot exist without it. That is why Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, etc. are perfect examples of what is wrong with atheism.

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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:37 pm
I think that one application of religion to outer space is: what type of society should future outer space communities live in (moon and mars colonies, for example). Atheistic based - Communist, Socialist, Fascist, or God based - Capitalist?

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Post Re: The Role of Religion in Space Travel   Posted on: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:21 pm
First off, Hitler allied with the Catholic church. Religion was used heavily in his speeches. Especially to further isolate Germans as "superior" to all other races.

Second, Lenin was a socialist revolutionary who died too early. He was not a ruthless dictator like Stalin. In fact, he warned against Stalin taking power.

Third, Stalin was atheist. IT WAS NOT THE REASON HE KILLED PEOPLE. That man was paranoid out of his mind. He also showed devotion to things that were just unthinkable. The human cost for Stalingrad. The 5 year leaps of progress that made staggering economic booms. The millions shipped to Siberia after being ratted out by fellow citizens for "suspicious activity."

Props to Irquim for already pointing this out. Now let's move on...
Quote:
I think that one application of religion to outer space is: what type of society should future outer space communities live in (moon and mars colonies, for example). Atheistic based - Communist, Socialist, Fascist, or God based - Capitalist?


I'm atheist and a devout libertarian (socially liberal and economically conservative). In fact, atheists are spread across the board about economics. Many are libertarian like myself. Space based cultures will eventually be even more diverse than here on Earth. Atheists by nature are anti-authoritative. Religious institutions are seen as an authoritative power in much the same way as a government. Most atheists(like all other people) are reasonable and logical human beings. The USSR is the best example of why government is still necessary. China is the best example of why Capitalism is better.

This thread isn't about all those things though. Religion is going to be an interesting thing in space. I doubt space based societies will have those cookie cutter dimensions.

Quote:
"perfect examples of what is wrong with atheism."


Who the [censored] are you? That comment is just discrimination. I don't come on here commenting about christianity, judaism, islam, hindu, or any other religions. I'm atheist and proud. I have a set of morals and guidelines. I work hard and I make choices in life that put friends and family first. If you have a problem with atheists, take it somewhere else or PM me.

This thread is off topic. I'm making a request that a moderator close this thread.


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