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Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?

Posted by: topspeed - Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:46 pm
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Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ? 
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Space Walker
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Post Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:46 pm
I sketched this recently.

A huge Rocketdyne F-1:s to propell the lite SSME powered ship on 1.5 ( 1 mile ) rails sled.

Launch would take place at 4-5 km altitude to reach the thin air quickly.

I think this could arrive in ISS in 3 hours tops.

:wink:


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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:15 am
It enables with the "MANHATTAN TRANSFER" to reach Mars in just 14 days.

Tinman lander is launched when Star Eagle makes low energy transfer around the Mars.

:wink:

Space craft has to travel at 45 km/s...the tinman lander is a lite weight stellar speedster with enermous capability to speed up the pace.


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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:19 am
After thoroughfully investigating this take off we discovered ( with an NSF site fan ) that there would have to be a bit more punch than shown here in the mother ship to reach 32 000 kmh ( 12,0 km/s ) at 120 km altitude to safely launch the powered Mars shuttle to Mars orbit.

There are thus 5 stages in the system now.

Also the Manhattan Transfer has to be adjusted to make it work...but definitely shorter route than the 712 mio km with simple Hohmann Transfer.

In size about 1/5th of the Apollo ( weight ) at the rail.

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:54 am
Here is a comparison..if piled up like Apollo this 5. stage Mars ship would be 125 m long.


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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:51 am
One detail added..the scramjet which comes to play after some rocket time after the rail launch.

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:59 am
Here is how the imaginary Mars shuttle would look like that carries the lander.


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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:18 pm
rail launch does not need wings. In fact can't. They will just add drag. its a bullet. Also you dont want to haul wings etc. to Mars.


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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:56 pm
JamesG wrote:
rail launch does not need wings. In fact can't. They will just add drag. its a bullet. Also you dont want to haul wings etc. to Mars.


Well it can it the speed is mild and the set up is not straight up..you gain more speed in less angle used case...and save fuel as it flies as an aeroplane...and is thus reusable always....even when coming back from Mars.

Or do you mean they'd catch the Mars ship back in the orbit with the mother ship ?

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:20 pm
Most underused innovation in the way to the orbit; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramjet

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:45 am
Check out Zeropto,

you can use a very very very large coilgun at the end of your track

and a laser induced plasma aerospike super_cavitation.

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:37 pm
Sigma wrote:
Check out Zeropto,

you can use a very very very large coilgun at the end of your track

and a laser induced plasma aerospike super_cavitation.



I think I did check that option too..it takes trillion dollar power plant to deliver same as 3 x F-1 sized rocket engines as boosters for the rail launch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:08 am
What about a sled -> Ram - > Scram -> orbit?

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:23 am
Scram is too slow at the end...it has to be..rail scram + rocket...or rail, ram, rocket.

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:22 am
Achieving any portion of orbital speed inside the atmosphere is impossible, because of air resistance. Not as friction, but as turbulence. Even at the top of Mt. Everest the air is still to thick to allow mile per second velocities.

But your idea of a rail for launching is good, as the launch vehicle will be huge, several million pounds, probably, and supporting it will take either a rail system or a huge undercarriage and a lot of very thick runway. Miles of it. We will need miles of track, too, but it won't just be track, it will be a track with a rail gun. Because of vortex actions having a wing close to the ground is not good, especially when traveling at 200 plus miles per hour. Maybe even 300 mph, as the wing will need a lot of lift to get off.

By having the linear motor accelerate our stack of carrier wing and orbiter, we can save a large amount of fuel, plus provide a safe way to stop the whole conglomeration safely, in case of an abort. So, yeah, we are looking at several milse of track, I guess, but I think it would still be cheaper than a runway, and it reduces the weight of an undercarriage by several orders of magnitude.

By putting the orbiter on the back of the carrier wing, the weight of the whole combination can be centered on the wing. Also, at the point of launch, or ignition of the rocket engines on the orbiter, the orbiter can fly off of the back of the wing, instead of dropping several thousand feet.

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Post Re: Rail launched TSTO to Mars with just 1/10 cost of Apollo ?   Posted on: Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:37 am
The orbiter doesn't have to burn liquid hydrogen, because it is not trying to climb straight up, and it is not trying to lift 50 tons. Nor are we going to expect the orbiter to reach more than, say, 250 miles, or for it to stay in orbit for more than a couple of days. The only reason that we are doing it this way is so that we can put people into space reliably, safely, and fairly cheaply, once we get the system working right.

The Space Shuttle was never meant to be a working vehicle, it was originally designed as a proto-type, an experimental thing, to prove that something will work. Only because NASA had to put all of its launch eggs in the single basket of the shuttle did it become our primary launch vehicle. But the shuttle accomplished the most important thing; it proved that a winged re-entry vehicle can be used again and again, and that the vehicle can be flown like an airplane to a specific point, and landed like an airplane. We learned a few things about management, as well but that is another story.

By lifting our launchpad to 50,000 feet, we can launch toward the horizon, instead of straight up. Because it is not important how high you go, what matters is how fast you are going. 5 miles per second is moving right along, thank you.

We can talk about going to Mars all we want, but right now, the only way the NASA astronauts can get into orbit is by hitching a ride with the Russians, in a spacecraft virtually unchanged since the 1960's, which only carries 3 people in a very tight, cramped space. And launching straight up requires such phenomenal reliability for man-rating that we are going to be waiting for a while before we can send more than 4 or 5 people up at one shot.

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