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Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?

Posted by: topspeed - Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:12 pm
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Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ? 
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Post Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:12 pm
I watched several hours worth of space exploration history on YouTube and one thing really pointed out there. Wernher von Braun said that who controls the Space is like the master of the seas of the early days.

Then I tought..what have we really profited from the space..have we even be looking for something there ?

I said this to my collegue at the work and he said Indium is exhausted. I also read somewhere that a big eastern nation has almost all Lithium storages on the globe.

What would be worth mining for in the space ?

Is this ; http://www.indium.com/metals/indium/supply/ ???

:?: :arrow: :wink:

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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:20 pm
topspeed wrote:
I watched several hours worth of space exploration history on YouTube and one thing really pointed out there. Wernher von Braun said that who controls the Space is like the master of the seas of the early days.

Then I tought..what have we really profited from the space..have we even be looking for something there ?

I said this to my collegue at the work and he said Indium is exhausted. I also read somewhere that a big eastern nation has almost all Lithium storages on the globe.

What would be worth mining for in the space ?

Is this ; http://www.indium.com/metals/indium/supply/ ???

:?: :arrow: :wink:


There have been several scare stories about shortages of rare earths but they are just that scare stories there is plenty of any naturally occurring element down here its just if there is the economic and or social need. China cornered the market for a while because they did not have such strong heath and safety or environmental laws. Strip mining the Moon would not spoil the water table or poison the air so if we had decent polluter pays laws worldwide down here it might become more economical to move heavy industry off earth.

Space is already well over a $400 Billion industry per annum for what it does for us down here it could easily become multi $Trillion per annum if the seed capital is spent to boot strap it but its only recently that lots of #NewSpace industry's have begun to think that way and started to make some progress.

If we as a species don't wish to commit suicide sooner rather than later through negligently not thinking ahead we need to have back up self sufficient populations off Earth so in that case we will need to mine everything we do down here plus stuff to make a decent artificial atmosphere.

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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:30 pm
SANEAlex wrote:
topspeed wrote:
I watched several hours worth of space exploration history on YouTube and one thing really pointed out there. Wernher von Braun said that who controls the Space is like the master of the seas of the early days.

Then I tought..what have we really profited from the space..have we even be looking for something there ?

I said this to my collegue at the work and he said Indium is exhausted. I also read somewhere that a big eastern nation has almost all Lithium storages on the globe.

What would be worth mining for in the space ?

Is this ; http://www.indium.com/metals/indium/supply/ ???

:?: :arrow: :wink:


There have been several scare stories about shortages of rare earths but they are just that scare stories there is plenty of any naturally occurring element down here its just if there is the economic and or social need. China cornered the market for a while because they did not have such strong heath and safety or environmental laws. Strip mining the Moon would not spoil the water table or poison the air so if we had decent polluter pays laws worldwide down here it might become more economical to move heavy industry off earth.

Space is already well over a $400 Billion industry per annum for what it does for us down here it could easily become multi $Trillion per annum if the seed capital is spent to boot strap it but its only recently that lots of #NewSpace industry's have begun to think that way and started to make some progress.

If we as a species don't wish to commit suicide sooner rather than later through negligently not thinking ahead we need to have back up self sufficient populations off Earth so in that case we will need to mine everything we do down here plus stuff to make a decent artificial atmosphere.


But isn't the LUNAR INJECTION a heavy maneuver that consumes a lot of resources....a smaller moon or a meteor could be more inexpensive to mine or not ? What is there on the moon ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-lunar_injection

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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:53 pm
topspeed wrote:
But isn't the LUNAR INJECTION a heavy maneuver that consumes a lot of resources....a smaller moon or a meteor could be more inexpensive to mine or not ? What is there on the moon ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-lunar_injection


I would say its an argument that has not been decided yet there are good cases for both asteroid and Moon mining each have their advantages and disadvantages. A Moon space elevator is within humanity's engineering capabilities at the moment so if we as a species were going to do a lot of mining it might worth the larger upfront costs to build a decent one to make later ups and downs a lot cheaper. Though its possible if the right asteroid is available in a near enough orbit that it would be worthwhile mining one to make the first Moon elevator.

The Moon has everything we have down here and in some cases lots of it would be more easily accessible Helium 3 if that kind of fusion is as feasible as has been suggested and a lot of platinum group metals that have many industrial uses.

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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:32 am
SANEAlex wrote:
topspeed wrote:
But isn't the LUNAR INJECTION a heavy maneuver that consumes a lot of resources....a smaller moon or a meteor could be more inexpensive to mine or not ? What is there on the moon ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-lunar_injection


I would say its an argument that has not been decided yet there are good cases for both asteroid and Moon mining each have their advantages and disadvantages. A Moon space elevator is within humanity's engineering capabilities at the moment so if we as a species were going to do a lot of mining it might worth the larger upfront costs to build a decent one to make later ups and downs a lot cheaper. Though its possible if the right asteroid is available in a near enough orbit that it would be worthwhile mining one to make the first Moon elevator.

The Moon has everything we have down here and in some cases lots of it would be more easily accessible Helium 3 if that kind of fusion is as feasible as has been suggested and a lot of platinum group metals that have many industrial uses.


A moon space elevator is within humanity's engineering capabilities....I had to rethink this...how do you install it there....who privides the lift and what does is use for power to lift the raw materials ?

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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:55 pm
topspeed wrote:

A moon space elevator is within humanity's engineering capabilities....I had to rethink this...how do you install it there....who privides the lift and what does is use for power to lift the raw materials ?


There was a thread on a Luna space elevator earlier on in the year with some more details and links IIRC they reckon you could build a small proof of concept one for about $800 Million at today's launch costs but hidden in the small print of the calculations was it was likely that the cable would fail within about 3 months from a micro mentor strikes. So although a proof of concept with existing materials technology would be interesting I suspect a long term practical Luna space elevator would need a few if not tens of $Billions to be able to be robust enough to also house spares and or integrated LIDAR/RADAR laser defence systems.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12831&hilit=space+elevator

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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:53 pm
Slightly worried about the Mars One expedition when I found this;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z3G20K8L6z

I wonder how accurate is that ?

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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:48 pm
topspeed wrote:
Slightly worried about the Mars One expedition when I found this;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z3G20K8L6z

I wonder how accurate is that ?


Well nobody has launched yet so on the principle of measure twice cut once we are still in the measurement phase. So although some interesting points were brought up I suspect that before actual kit is loaded onto launch vehicles quite a few detailed simulations will be done as computing power is the one thing that is constantly getting cheaper. Much cheaper in fact than current launch prices.

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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:37 pm
Quote:
the colonists will begin dying in 68 days


Well, they did say that they wanted to make it dramatic for the viewers. :?

Of course, who cares what a bunch of students (even from MIT) think?


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Post Re: Is SPACE the new frontier that has to be colonized ?   Posted on: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:09 am
topspeed wrote:
Slightly worried about the Mars One expedition when I found this;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z3G20K8L6z

I wonder how accurate is that ?

If you are only 'slightly' worried about the Mars One expedition, than you may not agree with much of what I have to say.

Colonization of anywhere in space at this time is pointless. We have no reason to try to keep humans alive off-planet beyond a space station or 3 right now. A lunar base would be a wonderful thing, but I don't think we would consider it a 'colony', as people would be rotated out on a regular basis. But justifying the expense for one at this point would be difficult.

Fact of the matter is, we are seriously short of launch vehicles that are man-rated right now, so merely rotating the crew on the International Space Station is quite a challenge. As long as going into space means taking off straight up, progress is going to be slow, because everything has to work right in order to avoid killing people, and each rocket is very expensive.

The German engineers who created all of the hardware of both space programs have died, and they apparently did not have any apprentices. Apart from solid rocket motors, launch vehicles are being limited to smaller liquid fueled motors on upper stages. Most of the proposed heavy lift launch vehicles have relied upon surplus Space Shuttle Main Engines, which would be discarded after the launch. Without more government funding, the private sector is not able to build and test new rockets very quickly.

We simply do not have the launch capacity at this time to support any kind of colonization effort. Nor do we have a reason for the expense, beyond abstract concepts such as the survival of the human race. Were environmental regulation to become widespread, than the costs of extracting resources would force exploration and development off-planet. But as long as governments are willing to take short-term wealth over long-term survival, environmental regulation is unlikely to spread.

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