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How we are trying to save human space flight - Save NASA!
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Launch Director ![]()
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 16 |
Hey everyone. My name is Brian Cleaver. I mostly read on these forums. A few years ago I posted on these forums when I was first starting my degree with aerospace engineering. I have since switched my major a few months ago, though. Studying at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach Florida over the past year, I and other students heard about the president's plans to cancel the constellation program and merely cause the space program to orbit the Earth.
We created a petition and organized students to rally against the proposed plans so we can "defeat or fundamentally change the proposed plans." Being close to Kennedy Space Center, we visited various rallies including the Save Space rally in Cocoa Beach, Florida and a rally outside of Kennedy Space Center during the president's visit. I am primarily here to tell you all about what we have been doing and to see if any of you are interested in helping the cause. We have been working at getting people to write to their member of Congress and get people to sign our petition for a public list of people who support human space exploration. I encourage you all to write to your members of Congress (although I am sure that many of you already have) and to sign our organization's petition. We are also working on getting other colleges involved (more information about this is on our website.) As students, we have had meetings on Capitol Hill and in the Capitol Building with various people in an effort to save human space flight. We are working on primarily getting people to write to their members of Congress, sign our petition, and get other colleges and schools involved. So please visit our website and please sign our petition or do any of the other things I have mentioned. Please let me know if any of you are interested in helping us getting more signatures on our petition, getting other colleges involved, or doing other tasks which are outlined on our website. We are also working on getting in contact with the media. The email sent to the media is enclosed below which tells you all more information about our organization and our cause. For more information, read our petition at http://www.SaveNASA.us/petition and read our organization blog at http://www.SaveNASA.us/blog. For general information, visit our website at www.SaveNASA.us. We have only until October to make a difference. Please let me know if any of you are interested in helping us out and ensuring that this forum has plenty of news to report over the decades to come. Quote: Dear Media Network, "If your organization gathers 22,000 signatures on its petition, a summary of the petition, the cause, and the organization will be sitting on the desk of President Obama the morning after the petition is submitted to him. ... We want your organization to try and get as many other colleges and students involved as possible." This is a summary of a conversation I had with a few staff members in Senator Session’s office which describe just how we really can make an impact in the human space exploration debate and save our country’s human space exploration program. Save NASA!’s new organization goal – have President Obama acknowledge our organization, our purpose, and our cause by November of 2010, and with the help of the media, we will achieve this goal. Our organization has been doing a lot of work in order to make an impact on Congress’s upcoming decision which decides the future of human space flight in our country, and we have also had meetings on Capitol Hill and in the Capitol Building which will be discussed more in depth later in this email. Like millions of others, we feel that the plan which President Obama has laid out for the future of human space exploration is vague, unorganized, and lacks vision. Due to this, we have been heavily involved in impacting Congress’s decision since the announcement of the proposal in January of 2010. We have created a petition, and we have a Facebook group, Save NASA!, which to date, has over 22,000 members. In light of the news, we quickly organized students and put together a “Campus-Wide Presentation” at our school. At the presentation, we spoke to students, faculty and staff about the situation with our country’s human space exploration program and we explained how if all people in the room work together, we CAN impact Congress’s decision. So far, this theory has proven correct. We held a stand in our school’s cafeteria or “Student Center” for two weeks straight. The purpose of the stand was to encourage students to write to their members of Congress but to also encourage students to sign our organization’s petition which has been read by hundreds of people. To date, our organization’s petition has gained 723 signatures. There are 248 signatures of students, 6 signatures of professors and teachers, 1 signatures of employees of NASA or their partners, and 472 other signatures. There are 263 paper signatures and 460 digital signatures. 62 messages enclosed in Section F of our petition have been sent to Congress on behalf of our membership. These messages are not letters mailed out but messages to Congress enclosed on our petition. To recap additional things our organization has done for the cause, on March 19, 2010, I, Brian Cleaver, Save NASA! vice president, visited the Today Show and stood in the audience where I held a sign stating “Save NASA! … At Embry-Riddle.” In that instant, I advertised our cause and our goal to an audience of millions. More information about any of these events is available on our blog at http://www.SaveNASA.us/blog. On April 4, 2010, we organized a “Roadside Awareness Rally” at a busy intersection nearby our college in Daytona Beach, Florida. At the rally, we held signs to raise awareness of the situation to hundreds of people passing by. We received an enormous amount of positive feedback from people driving by and from the media. That night, we appeared on FOX 35 News before an audience of thousands across the central and eastern Florida region. The following day, our organization appeared on the cover of the Daytona Beach’s newspaper, News-Journal. Furthermore, we had a Japanese news crew on the scene to video record the event. They were there with special passes to document the launch of the shuttle which was taking place the following day. However, we have not been able to locate that news article. I do request that you look at our blog for additional information about the rally. On April 10, 2010, we encouraged our worldwide membership to take to the streets and hold signs stating “Save NASA!” along with the organization logo. One member who did this was from Salta, Argentina. This photo is available on our blog as well. On April 11, 2010, we attended the Save Space rally in Cocoa Beach, Florida. At the rally, we stood with hundreds of Kennedy Space Center workers and other workers as we said in one voice, “Save Space.” We were able to meet various astronauts as well as Representative Bill Posey where we told him all about what we are doing to help the cause. More information is available on our blog. On April 15, 2010, President Obama visited Kennedy Space Center and delivered his speech regarding the future of human space flight. Four of our members visited Kennedy Space Center and outside its gates, we rallied against the Obama Administration’s views on human space exploration. The speech was taking place in the middle of the day which reduced the amount of participants. On April 23, 2010, our organization faxed our petition and a cover letter to ALL 540 members of Congress. In the cover letter, we described what our organization has done and what we feel is right for our country. We also made our primary message clear which is, to quote the first sentence of our petition, “The dreams, the hopes, the ambitions, and the aspirations of us, the students of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University and other colleges across the country, are on the verge of complete destruction.” We raised the funds to complete the faxing very easily from our membership. The total cost of the project was about $270. More information is available on our blog. On May 13, 2010, I, Brian Cleaver, Save NASA! vice president, and Mike Mezzettone, Save NASA! member, visited Washington DC where we met with various people regarding the Save NASA! cause. We met with the people from the budget committee in the House and Senate. As proof of our visit, their business cards are available on our blog. These people include: House Budget Committee • Jim Herz o Republican Staff o Position: Budget Analyst & Budget Review Function 250: General Science, Space and Technology Function 270: Energy Function 300: Natural Resources and Environment • Alison Mitchell o Democratic Staff o Position: Unknown Senate Budget Committee • Gregory McNeal o Republican Staff o Position: Science and Technology Analyst • Robyn Hiestand o Democratic Staff o Position: Education, International, Appropriations Issues Senator LeMihux’s office • Michael Zehr o Legislative Director Senator Bill Nelson’s office • Yariv Pierce o Legislative Correspondent Due to advice given to us by various people we met with, we decided to plan another trip to return to Washington DC. Due to me living in New Jersey and living nearby Washington DC, I was the only person able to attend this second trip. This trip was very successful. The first meeting we had was in the United States Capitol Building in the actual meeting room of the House Committee on Appropriations. During the meeting, I spoke to Dixon Butler, clerk and scientific advisor for the committee. I discussed the importance of human space flight in relation to the Appropriation Committee, and I also went over how President Obama has repeatedly put human space exploration as a dangerously low priority. In return, he explained the committee’s views on the situation and the positive end of the proposed plan. I had additional meetings with various people as well which are outlined below. Their business cards are also available on our blog. House Appropriations Committee staff member • Dixon Butler o Former chief scientist for GLOBE o Currently science advisor and clerk for the committee o Meeting was held in the House Committee on Appropriations meeting room in the Capitol Building Senator David Vitter’s office • Jason Stewart o Legislative Correspondent Senator Jeff Sessions’ office • Sandra Luff o National Security Advisor • Brent Breining o Defense Legislative Fellow Furthermore, our petition is being hosted at three colleges in the United States. These colleges are Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Florida led by Sam Patel and Brian Cleaver, Ocean County College in Toms River, New Jersey led by Alycyne Fumosa, and Star Career Academy in Bricktown, New Jersey led by Stephanie Friday. At the strong recommendation of members of staff for Senator Sessions, we are also working on outreaching to thousands of colleges across the United States so that come September, we can have a large student led response go into effect. Congress is voting in November regarding its decision for human space flight and we need to make an impact on that decision in order to ensure the success of our country’s human space exploration program for the generations to come. Over the summer, our membership will be working on outreaching to other colleges and getting them involved in the cause as well. Our primary goal will be to get them to join what we are doing or start something similar to what we are doing. We are working at encouraging them to write letters to their members’ of Congress as well. Another goal we have is to get as many signatures on our petition as possible. Standing united and having signatures on one document will show our membership’s strength in numbers, and we will also be able publically prove our goal. We are asking that you help us achieve our goal of impacting Congress’s upcoming decision by discussing us in your media outlet. We have been doing a lot of work to outreach to Congress and we know that the media has far more the ability to outreach to Congress than we can do. With your help, we will be able to get Congress to realize the importance of human space exploration to our organization, and we will be able to outreach to thousands of colleges across the United States so we can organize students with shared views, so as one united body, we will all finally impact Congress’s decision. We would appreciate it if you would read through our blog at http://www.SaveNASA.us/blog which includes additional information about our organization and our five school newspaper articles. A press release about our organization is enclosed and is also available at http://savenasa.us/files/Save%20NASA!%2 ... elease.pdf. Also, please visit our petition at http://www.SaveNASA.us/petition to read our petition and facts about our petition. You can also download a copy of the petition which includes all paper and digital signatures by visiting http://savenasa.us/files/Save%20NASA!%20Petition.pdf. A copy of this document is enclosed. Thank you for your much appreciated time. Brian Cleaver Vice President of Save NASA! http://www.SaveNASA.us |
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Spaceflight Participant ![]()
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:14 pm
Posts: 73 Location: Mojave CA |
This is flogging a dead horse. The Apollo era is exhausted.
The sense of mission that got astronauts to the moon is over, and NASA is now a bloated, very inefficient bureaucratic jobs program. Google "microlaunchers" for how to re-start the space program. We need a new paradigm, and only something like this will work. |
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Space Walker ![]()
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:44 am
Posts: 174 Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands |
Indeed. The space shuttle started as a low-cost way to access space, got too expensive amongst others because of its dual-use civilian and military role, and is now mainly a job maintenance/political pork barrel project. The goal of Constellation was to continue the money flow to the various corporations and states involved after the retirement of the shuttle, thus ensuring the various senators' campaign contributions and re-election. That's why everything was shuttle-derived. Cancelling it is a fantastic thing for the US space programme, in the longer term.
What needs to happen is for these corporations to either dissolve, split up, slim down, or otherwise learn to keep up their trousers without government money. That way, their political influence will diminish, and the political possibilities for real progress will open up. In a decade or so, the US government will be able to expand NASAs budget again, and, now free of corporate interests, give it some real freedom to choose the best technical solutions rather than earmarking all the money for specific projects (i.e. corporations). With that political freedom and with a real market in existence, NASA will then be able to choose between various suppliers to fulfill their requirements at much lower costs, thus saving the taxpayer money and opening up the way for more space exploration. Of course, by then there will be a Republican president in charge, who will take the credit for commercialising space and saving the US space programme from the evil socialist Obama. The US is a funny country. |
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Space Walker ![]()
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:47 am
Posts: 224 Location: Science Park, Cambridge, UK |
From SpaceX site...
Quote: The NASA COTS program has demonstrated the power of what can be accomplished when you combine private sector responsiveness and ingenuity with the guidance, support and insight of the US government. For less than the cost of the Ares I mobile service tower, SpaceX has developed all the flight hardware for the Falcon 9 orbital rocket, Dragon spacecraft, as well as three launch sites Perhaps a good enough reasons for NASA to concentrate on other areas than manned spaceflight? |
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Space Walker ![]()
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:16 pm
Posts: 239 |
tl;dr...
I fail to see why Constellation would 'save' human spaceflight. It would have resulted in a massive gap between the last Shuttle flight and the first Orion flight. Anyway, the American government lacking it's own spaceflight capability doesn't mean that there'd be no human spaceflight, or even that America itself would lack human spaceflight - there's the Russians and Chinese who definitely have manned flight, Europe can get it for a few billion Euro's on an upgraded ATV, and SpaceX are working on Dragon, which will be ready long before any Orion would have been. |
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Space Walker ![]()
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 153 |
Congratulations on your work to try to impede progress. You, and porkbarrel politicians like yourself, did a great job of ensuring that fewer people wold fly into space at far greater cost by insisting that it be all done by the government.
Commercial spaceflight was cut from the Presidents $4.6B to under $500M in the authorization bills that just came out of committee in the Senate and House. Other good programs, like reusable suborbital spaceflight, were eliminated for just sounding similar, and were only brought back to life through perseverance and luck. Sincerely, Ben Brockert previous Vice President of the Iowa State Space Society and Vice Chair of Students for the Exploration and Development of Space - USA |
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Space Walker ![]()
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:30 am
Posts: 217 Location: Perth, Western Australia |
Yes my sentiments have been adequately expresssed already regarding Cx and 'pork'. What I don't understand is the lack of critical review by students and the sheep mentality that has apparently overtaken them. Baaaahhh
However Ben don't despair, it's not over yet. The Senate and House as I understand it, have to get together to get a combined bill to the Administration and then the Administration no doubt would have some push back if they didn't like it. Irrespective of the political goings on, SpaceX and Orbital will continue pursuing the objective of putting cargo transport in orbit and SpaceX will continue it's Dragon crew option regardless. Cheers. _________________ Beancounter from Downunder |
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Launch Director ![]()
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:00 pm
Posts: 16 |
Hey everyone. I recommend that you (re)read our petition. We endorse the Senate's proposed plans with the exception that we feel that going the moon and then Mars is a better alternative than going to an asteroid and then Mars.
As far as government control, the organization name "Save NASA!" can at times be misleading. We are dedicated to primarily saving "NASA" and therefore saving human space flight. We feel that a government controlled human space exploration program which is affiliated with private industries can produce more benefits. Being that the Senate is working on doing just that, it seems that they may be taking a direction we feel is most beneficial. We have members who do work for private industries such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin, NASA, and others. So what we are primarily working on doing now, is getting colleges, students, and other people involved with writing to their members of Congress to endorse the Senate committee's proposed plans with the exception of the cancellation of the plans to return to the moon. Again, I recommend that you (re)read our petition. Let me know if you have anything to add. I am open for a debate. Thanks, Brian |
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Space Walker ![]()
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:44 am
Posts: 174 Location: Haarlem, The Netherlands |
Max CR wrote: Hey everyone. I recommend that you (re)read our petition. We endorse the Senate's proposed plans with the exception that we feel that going the moon and then Mars is a better alternative than going to an asteroid and then Mars. Quote: As far as government control, the organization name "Save NASA!" can at times be misleading. We are dedicated to primarily saving "NASA" and therefore saving human space flight. Quote: We feel that a government controlled human space exploration program which is affiliated with private industries can produce more benefits. Being that the Senate is working on doing just that, it seems that they may be taking a direction we feel is most beneficial. Quote: We have members who do work for private industries such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin, NASA, and others. So what we are primarily working on doing now, is getting colleges, students, and other people involved with writing to their members of Congress to endorse the Senate committee's proposed plans with the exception of the cancellation of the plans to return to the moon. Quote: Again, I recommend that you (re)read our petition. Let me know if you have anything to add. Quote: I am open for a debate. What part of President Obama's plans should be clarified, which part of its organisation are you unhappy with, and what do you mean with "lacks vision" other than "I don't agree"? |
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Spaceflight Participant ![]()
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:14 pm
Posts: 73 Location: Mojave CA |
No! Don't save NASA!
We must turn our backs on it. It's hopelessly bloated, expensive, slow. Apollo is over. Start anew, outside the government. Start small, like aviation did. Start with small unmanned probes (like Microlaunchers). Build a culture/community of involved, then evolve the hardware, incrementally--like microcomputers evolved from Altair to what I type this on. From tiny spacecraft, launchers to slightly larger more sophisticated (numbering in thousands), then the first manned launchers to take no more than 2 to orbit. Airplanes carried only 2 for years. Flogging the dead horse is never going to work. It's over. |
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Space Walker ![]()
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:30 am
Posts: 217 Location: Perth, Western Australia |
I'm not against saving NASA although I don't believe for one moment that it's doomed.
What I don't want to save is the any part of the Cx program or SDHLV systems. I don't want NASA doing any more large misson-style programs when historially they have demonstrated total inability to deliver anything of substance. I don't want them continuing to use cost plus contracting procurement. I don't want them to maintain huge levels of oversight which I believe isn't required. I do want them to remove layers of program managers and outdated bureacracy from the organisation. I do want them to engage in meaningful research into new methods and systems for achieving exploration beyond leo. Hopefully killing of Cx and Shuttle and any SD systems will go some way toward achieving that by reducing their relationships with existing cost plus contractors, reducing their standing workforces and releasing funds for the research that's required to move exploration forwards. That said, their robotic missions have generally been successful and in most cases exceeded expectations and returned useful science. That's one area that I believe could be expanded upon although like the HSF programs, there's the tendancy to expand requirements during mission design which needs to be constrained in order to meet cost and timeline budgets. Just my 2 cents worth. _________________ Beancounter from Downunder |
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