Community > Forum > The Spaceflight Cafe > Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism

Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism

Posted by: sanman - Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:58 pm
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 37 posts ] 
Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism 
Author Message
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 422
Location: B.O.A. UK
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:24 am
I was thinking of the shape of buckyballs rather than made of them tho of course plastic reinforced by bucky tubes could be quite strong for balloon envelopes i think if you used naked graphene it would break down thru oxidizing. I also prefer multiple redundancy 1 spare balloon is not enough for a paranoid soul like me a lot of people have died in 1 in 50 year "accidents and disasters" over the years, if i am going to play lotto with my life i would prefer lotto odds :twisted: and think if its possible to build safely with long odds for accidents then it should be done me being being advocate of both the KISS principle and aware of the 6P management principle warning "Piss Poor Planning Prevents Proper Performance" :twisted:

_________________
Someone has to tilt at windmills.
So that we know what to do when the real giants come!!!!


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:16 pm
Posts: 335
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:28 pm
Why do you want to float at 40km, rather than, say, 25km? Doing it at a lower altitude makes everything a lot easier, while still giving the same views.


Back to top
Profile
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:59 pm
Posts: 188
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:10 pm
I don't think you'd use naked graphene - instead you'd use a polymer impregnated with graphene flakes. Large enough flakes would give you the strength you'd need, plus they'd be protected inside the polymer. And then you'd have a protective coating on top of that.

Boron Nitride can form a fullerene-like/graphene-like structures as well, and it's impervious to oxidation, although anything can break down under enough direct exposure to UV and other cosmic rays. Anyway, BN-film is much harder to synthesize. Also, I don't think it's as impermeable to small atomic gases.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 422
Location: B.O.A. UK
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:06 pm
It looks like someone in Vegas has taken the first steps in a floating platform but wind has just crashed it, shame i hope they can rebuild it better.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/26 ... oon_prang/

_________________
Someone has to tilt at windmills.
So that we know what to do when the real giants come!!!!


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
avatar
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:29 pm
Posts: 712
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:50 pm
Au O what are you guy's discussing here? Looks interesting! I'm listening! What else ya got? Keep it rolling! Let's hear some real Ideas here! Might land you a job? lol anyway keep up the good works! Love my friends at SF and wish I had more time to spend here. But it's good we are busy. I'm not afraid to try out some Ideas you guy's know that!

Monroe
Team Prometheus
http://www.teamprometheus.org

Aeronautic Enterprises Inc. Is now a reality!

_________________
Today's the day! We go into Space!


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:16 pm
Posts: 335
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:39 pm
I had a post about a sort of 'N-prize' for Nearspace tourism... but it appears to have vanished. The basic rules were:

1. Must have a crew of 4.
2. Must remain on station for 5 days at the least.
3. Must remain above 20km for the duration of the mission.
4. Must be able to fly again within a week of landing.
5. Must all be reusable, with the exception of the lifting gas.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
avatar
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:29 pm
Posts: 712
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:39 pm
I like the way you think!

Monroe

_________________
Today's the day! We go into Space!


Back to top
Profile
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:59 pm
Posts: 188
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:55 am
I think there should be more ambitious criteria, such as maintaining a crew of 10, and remaining on station for at least 2 weeks. There could also be another competitive category for renewable technologies such as solar energy and water management.

But yeah, this is a cool idea, and it's much more commercializable than X-prize stuff. Near Space could be the nearer future of Space Tourism.

If Goodyear can sponsor blimps, then so could major corporate


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Commander
Space Station Commander
avatar
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:29 pm
Posts: 712
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:27 am
Right! Throw JPA a bone! I think a two man habitat for a Year is attainable! With Ion engine station keeping! And resupply by balloon as well with Ion thrusters for guidance! Would be like camping out on the ocean! I'll do it!


Monroe

_________________
Today's the day! We go into Space!


Back to top
Profile
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 146
Location: Webster, TX
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:49 pm
High-altitude Research and Observation Platform :) is what it is starting to sound like

Terraformer wrote:
1. Must have a crew of 4.
2. Must remain on station for 5 days at the least.
3. Must remain above 20km for the duration of the mission.
4. Must be able to fly again within a week of landing.
5. Must all be reusable, with the exception of the lifting gas.


these sound like excellent criteria, though i would stretch the second one to at least 2 months duration. The problem with this of course being supplies. Power and water may not be an issue as low weight recycling techniques could be employed for the water, and of course wind and solar for power.
The 20km altitude min sounds pretty reasonable (had to check my conversion...stupid imperial measurements :) ) as it should keep you above most weather systems.

The big question is... what should be the primary use for such a facility?
here's my thoughts.
1) High Altitude Observatory, at 20km+ altitude atmosphereic distortion should be greatly reduced (someone in the know please confirm?)
2) Long duration life support testing rig. at the altitude that this facility will operate, you may as well be in space as far as the human body is concerned. This platform would offer a way to test improved life support systems for a craft, but should a problem occur, the crew would still have a high probablility of survival.
3) Aeroponics test facility. serves two fold purpose. would help to further research into aeroponics as well as develop procedural data for implimentation on long duration flights. Would also help reduce the amount of stored supplies.
4) terrestrial observation. a source of project income perhaps?
I can think of others...lol but I wont bore you all :)

Random question: What if the lifting envelope had a conductive weave and a small current was used to induce an electromagnetic field around the skin? could this possibly help aleiviate some of the radiation concerns?
/Random Question

Please excuse the spelling. Brain is still spooling up this morning. :)


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:16 pm
Posts: 335
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:41 am
Well, all I was thinking of intiially was to spur development of a transfer craft capable of being used for tourism... given the much lower requirements, a lot more groups could compete.

Good ideas, though. Perhaps the prize could be for a combination of a station and transfer craft, with the 2 months duration requirement and demonstration of docking ability between the shuttlecraft and the station. Perhaops have two prizes - one for the shuttlecraft, and a bigger one for the team that demonstrates a craft capable of dokcing with a station they've constructed, with the station remaining for at least 2 months.

As for the use of such a facility... tourism, solar power generation (imagine a large sphere filled with lifting gas, silvered on the bottom half to concentrate solar energy...), observatory, telecommunications...


Back to top
Profile
Spaceflight Enthusiast
Spaceflight Enthusiast
avatar
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:38 pm
Posts: 4
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:01 pm
I would be interested in knowing how much extra lift one of the very large very long balloons could gain by running power into a wire running the length of the balloon to create an opposite magnetic field to the earths magnetic field. It would depend on the balloons speed as well or if the balloon was siting still because if it is moving faster it would be crossing more magnetic fields.


Back to top
Profile
Space Walker
Space Walker
avatar
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:59 pm
Posts: 188
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:30 am
The amount of force generated would probably be negligeable in comparison to the weight of the balloon.


Back to top
Profile
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
User avatar
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 422
Location: B.O.A. UK
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:07 am
sanman wrote:
The amount of force generated would probably be negligeable in comparison to the weight of the balloon.


To be a pedant i would say mass of the balloon against air resistance as i would assume that the balloon would be "weightless" it being at a point where the air displaced equaled the weight of the balloon. :twisted: or were you thinking of its weight gain after the mag field lifted it a bit?

_________________
Someone has to tilt at windmills.
So that we know what to do when the real giants come!!!!


Back to top
Profile WWW
Space Station Member
Space Station Member
avatar
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:16 pm
Posts: 335
Post Re: Floating High Altitude Platforms for "Near Space" Tourism   Posted on: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:04 pm
Well, setting a work of fiction in Nearspace allows you to explain the 1g of gravity, large ships, definite down direction, pin-point turns... all classics of Soft SciFi.

Then say a supervolcano/nuclear war has rendered the surface uninhabitable, and you have your MacGuffin explaining why food is produced in big aerostatic stations, manufacturing has been moved to the sky, big warships patrol the darkness...


Back to top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ] 
 

Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests


cron
© 2014 The International Space Fellowship, developed by Gabitasoft Interactive. All Rights Reserved.  Privacy Policy | Terms of Use